Thanks guys, Yes Andy, bought this frame from al, wasn't sure whether or not to go for it at first as I had no photos from al to determine the condition....... when it turned up i couldn't believe it! it is nearly 20 years old and apart from a coule of minor chips its as new!!! can't wait to get it built up.... rims are a bit of a sticking point at the moment, sure i'll get some sorted soon though!