Can anyone help date this bike?

[chrisn]

I have a Dayton Elite, which I did up when I was at uni 1980's. The frame is double butted 531, and the forks are also 531. It was originally designed for 26" wheels not 27". I have found some people on the web with Dayton Elites but there are a few differences which I think may help date it.

I am certain of the make, model and frame material because when I started all the original transfers were present, it was the DB531 frame forks and stays transfer that made me think about doing it up. When the frame was stripped the tubes actually had some manufacturers detail' I cant remember exactly' but it confirmed Reynolds 531.

The frame had a distinctive Dayton transfer on the seat tube with a micrometer forming a D for Dayton. and the badge on the head says Daton Cycle Co London, same as all the others I have seen, BUT
on all the others the centre of the badge is again this Micrometer D, mine has what appers to be crossed swords and a rifle.

Also looking at the photos I have just taken the rear dropouts are an unusual design with a noticeable 'spur' sticking down.

Hopefully the attached photo may assist. Any information greatly appreciated

Chris

 

[OldTel]

Hi, really would like to see a picture of the whole bike, but there was an 'Elite' in the the Postwar catalogue in 1948. The Micrometer type badge, I believe is an early type ( pre war ? ), and yours is post. The spur is very 'Claud Butler', this type of dropout was fashionable at the time. I hope this helps a bit. Terry

 

[chrisn]

Hi Terry,
Thanks for this information so quickly. Fuller picture as requested. She looks a bit sad at present. The brakes aren't original, they were bought from Harry Halls in Manchester in the 80s when I did it up, likewise the bottom bracket.

Thinking of an odd comment my Dad made years ago about her I think she may have originally had Sturmey Archer hub gears but could be mistaken, I can't clarify that as he died a long time ago.

Chris

 

[OldTel]

Hi Chris, worth getting it back on the road, not many Dayton's about, but also its a piece of family history. If the distance between the dropouts is narrow ( 110 - 115 ) he may of put a Sturmey on at some time. Terry

 

[chrisn]

The dropouts are narrower than on my Lincoln Imp, I used to have to ease them apart a bit when fitting the wheel with a 5 speed block which just fitted straight into the Imp.
Never measured them, and it will have to wait a while they are both in Mums garage at the minute, also will try and get some better pictures of lug and dropout designs next time

Chris

 

[OldTel]

Hi Chris, below is a photo of the dropout from one of my Claud's from 1942 for reference. It does sound like it is a narrow dropout, as the Lincoln Imps I have had/have have been 115 ( 1955 ) - 120 ( 1960 ). Terry

 

[keithglos]

Chris, The Dayton Elite in your catalogue was about 1951, and main tubes were 1" (yes) electric welded (amalgam) out of almost the worst tubing I have ever seen in a frame. The racing team had bronze welded frames with extra triangular fillets up from the bottom bracket.

Your bike has a very cheap lug set, including the sort of pressed fork crown used on cheap roadsters, which appears to be D to round section. I would be extremely surprised if your frame is any sort of 531. If you can accurately measure the diameter of the saddle pillar/seat pin then we can calculate the gauge of the tubing. Any less than 27.2mm (assuming no shim) it is not butted.

Also the top tube looks bent at the head lug, but this could be the makers attempt at pulling the lug angle, which was quite commonly done.
I hope these ancient memories are reasonably accurate.
Keith

 

[chrisn]

Hi Keith, thanks for the update, your comments open up a conundrum, as you say the lugs are fairly basic, but if the frame was electric welded then why have lugs. Also when I had the frame fully stripped I saw on the steel an identification mark that said 531 double butted.

The frame had been hanging in the edn of my dads garage and when I was at uni I was going to get some better wheels etc for my imp and when I went into Harry Halls bike shop in Manchester I noticed these frames with similar decals to the one in the garage, after double checking the decals and seeing the price of db 531 frames I decided to do up the Dayton rather than the Imp.

The seat post isnt original. Think I better head across to mums at some time with an accurate set of calipers to size the tube and also get serial numbers etc.

Then I can seek more advice from everybody.

 

[keithglos]

Chris, The dayton elite was originally an early attempt at quantity production using electric welding and 1 inch tubes. Late 40's early 50's. Quite a popular starting bike. schoolboys etc., looked quite good. But the frames were rubbish. Your bike is a bit later. difficult from pictures, but if a manufacturer pays for decent tubing they usually put them together a bit better.
I think it was about 1950 I saw the Dayton team in Weston S Mare, with the specially built frames with external extra brazed on wedges. One of the team was Dave Bedwell so no surprise they needed a bit of strength.

If the tubes are stamped 531 then I had better believe it. Most builders put the stamped bit under the lugs. The front forks could be a later replacement. The original elite had a ridge down the outside of the fork blades hoping to give a bit of rigidity.

Dayton had a few other failures, one was an alloy cotterless crank set on a straight hexagon.

 

[Midlife]

Slightly off topic, but wasn't dave bedwell so small he had to have his frames specially made ?

Shaun