Best steel bikes?!!

Jamesbike

Rocky Mountain Fan
Someone commented elsewhere that 653 was the best frame material? Why so???

Compared to 853 or 953 or humble 531??

Also do people notice difference between bespoke makers like Mercian, Bob Jackson,
middle layer regional builders and mass produced Raleigh and Dawes etc

and finally neo steel enigma, genesis, etc.

What do you guys think??
 
I have a strong suspicion it's more about how it's used rather than what it is when you get above gas pipe grade.
 
I have a strong suspicion it's more about how it's used rather than what it is when you get above gas pipe grade.
Agreed it's surely a mixture I material and mastery of it?

Hence my questions what's the best material and the best master?!
 
Perhaps a better way of thinking about it would be lighter-heavier, rather than best-worst. I say that because the main and most important difference between the cheaper and more expensive steel tubesets is that the UTS and Yield Strength increase when you spend more. That means that the stronger and more expensive tubesets can have a thinner wall, and so they result in lighter frames and forks. The alternative is that the tube thickness remains the same, but the frameset becomes much stiffer and stronger, which might be desirable in some situations, such as tandems or very heavy riders.

A large amount of the strength gains in the more expensive tubesets comes from the heat treatment process. Typically this means achieving an optimum and stable distribution of carbides in the iron matrix. Subsequent operations involving brazing and TIG welding can upset that distribution of carbides, so for the high strength tubesets it's more important to have a highly skilled frame builder who is sympathetic and knowledgeable about the impact of his/her activities on the steel. For example, the Reynolds 753 grade was supposed to be assembled using silver solder rather than conventional (brass) braze metal, as it reduces the temperature required.

https://www.reynoldstechnology.biz/materials/steel/s-753/
I believe that tube butting has two different roles to play here. Firstly, thickening the ends of the tubes ensures that there is extra material in areas that are subject to the highest stresses. Secondly, thickening the ends of the tubes ensures that there is extra material in areas that may be slightly weakened during the brazing or welding process.

It is for the rider and framebuilder to decide what is the best balance of cost, frame stiffness, and lightness. And the requirements of a cycle tourist carrying a tent, sleeping bag, stove etc will likely be very different to someone doing day rides with minimal equipment. The only other consideration I can think of is that, like titanium, 953 doesn't require paint.
 
653 was a lesser version of 753 - it was heat treated but less stiff. Probably in road gauges it was a little on the thin side. but as said above it's about the appropriateness of the material to the job in hand. A bike for a burly six footer needs different tubing to something ridden by a 55kg woman.

In oversized tubes driven more by fashion than need, my 653 MTB frame is lovely.
 
I'm 14 stone but prefer lightweight and springy steel for a road bike (and as you posted here, I guess it's road bikes that you are really speaking of). Can't say I've ridden the neo steel of Genesis etc in R853/953 stainless as I've found all I was looking for in an older Tommasini in oversized Columbus EL OS steel tubing after experimenting with 8 or so steel road frames in various build guises (531, SL, Max, 753, Oria ML34 etc). Assuming you have the right frame fit which is important, and as others have said, builder expertise and material all have a role to play. Also, don't underestimate the impact of the quality of the bike build (assembly and tuning) and the components, especially a well-matched set of wheels and tyres.
 
Are you looking for a frame or is this a question of curiosity?
Never pass on a new bike!

But as much out if curiosity for future purchases!

I have a 501 winter bike and a 531 Raleigh products division retro bike.

Just wondered if higher level frames and posh makes add anything?!
 
Depends on you and what type of rider you are and what you are looking to get from your cycling, but for me, 100% yes.
 
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