Review Battle Tomahawk!!!!!!!
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:shock: OOoooh I like that , reminds me of the K2 razorback I always wanted only with nicer CNC work and carbon.
Cheers for that Melvin.
Anyone ever seen one ?
Cheers for that Melvin.Anyone ever seen one ?
Les S. Moore
Retro Newbie
Battle Tomahawk
I had/have one of these bikes, they are the best, very rare. I broke the head tube on my 1994 carbon one when it was still very, very new, my own fault really. The guys at Battle replaced the front triangle with a custom gussetted aluminum one onto my carbon rear end for free, and I still ride it as my number one bike today. It still turns heads everywhere I go with it. Tons of folks ID me from far away because they know the bike before I get there. People I don't even know properly say "Here comes Battle" like it's my name or something. Weid. It is kinda like a K2 Razorback, but I think that had a pull-shock. It's more like a Miyata that Elev12K has on his website. Also I once saw a late '90s Yeti in the pale blue and yelow aluminum scheme htat was very similar and caught my attention because of it. The frame + Risse Elroy shock was $1275 US, dealer cost in 1994, so it was pretty expensive. It still rips today and climbs well up the steepest stuff even with a 5 inch Bomber on it. Sweeeeeet.
I had/have one of these bikes, they are the best, very rare. I broke the head tube on my 1994 carbon one when it was still very, very new, my own fault really. The guys at Battle replaced the front triangle with a custom gussetted aluminum one onto my carbon rear end for free, and I still ride it as my number one bike today. It still turns heads everywhere I go with it. Tons of folks ID me from far away because they know the bike before I get there. People I don't even know properly say "Here comes Battle" like it's my name or something. Weid. It is kinda like a K2 Razorback, but I think that had a pull-shock. It's more like a Miyata that Elev12K has on his website. Also I once saw a late '90s Yeti in the pale blue and yelow aluminum scheme htat was very similar and caught my attention because of it. The frame + Risse Elroy shock was $1275 US, dealer cost in 1994, so it was pretty expensive. It still rips today and climbs well up the steepest stuff even with a 5 inch Bomber on it. Sweeeeeet.
I really enjoyed reading that mag article. It is obvious a lot of thinking went into that frame, as much clever solutions can be seen. The builders really had to spirit to create something really nice and not necessarely go the conventional way. Great to hear yours -though with another front- is still doing so well
My guess is the Miyata you mean is this one =>
It is Greg own FS prototype based on the 1st generation bonded & bolted carbon frames. The FS that went into production, called Elevation 12,000 in the US and SkyExpension in Europe, was based on the more svelte 2nd generation and featured a link between shock and rear.
My guess is the Miyata you mean is this one =>
It is Greg own FS prototype based on the 1st generation bonded & bolted carbon frames. The FS that went into production, called Elevation 12,000 in the US and SkyExpension in Europe, was based on the more svelte 2nd generation and featured a link between shock and rear.
Les S. Moore
Retro Newbie
Hello, Thanks for putting up those other shots of the Herbold Miyatas. That bike was really quite a cool thing at the time. The one I saw when studying at Ste. Anne was the one with the rocker linkage by the seat QR. I never saw that cooler coilspring one in real life. Funny how those early DH bikes eventually evolved into good XC designs. I think an air/oil shock is always preferable to the coil though. The Battle uses a unique shock body design, with a strut at the end of the oil canister which is clamped by the MacPherson arm. Being about 3 inches long, you can add packing washers under the shock to alter the steering angle/rake, which is a nice idea, though I don't know if that was intentional in the design or something I devised myself to take some of the 'chop' off of it for woods riding and switchback ascents. Occassionally I removed them for long DH weekends. As far as I know you have to use a Risse shock, either a Genesis or an Elroy (same with damp. adjust.), though I plan to make a through-bolt receiver adapter out of aluminum in the future to facilitate a newer unit when necessary (maybe a DT Swiss). The Elroy is a great shock however: light, accurately tunable baffling and great for climbing, and has only had 2 seal rebuilds in 10 years or so, a robust stanchion on it, crazy reliable. I will post photos of my bike when I get back to Canada in mid 2008.
The production Miyata FS got the link to avoid the side forces the shock is exposed to by leaving a link out the design.
About any AMP bike's shock suffered from those forces. Apparently the Battle's suffered less, because of the stiffer tail (as can be read in the test)
About any AMP bike's shock suffered from those forces. Apparently the Battle's suffered less, because of the stiffer tail (as can be read in the test)
Les S. Moore
Retro Newbie
Re: rear triangle strength. The Battle has a very strong rear end on it with large overlay at the Horst link for lateral stiffness. The original BB pivot lasted 3 years, a nylon sleeve with threaded centring spacers. Then I fashioned 2 brass oil-impregnated bushings which lasted 2 more years. Lastly, I drilled out the through-hole to receive a stock car suspension bushing made by a custom car builder buddy of mine. This was so strong that it put all the torsional force rearward and ate the original Horst bushings almost immediately, which is the next modification on the schedule. The rear triangle is square carbon tubing bonded onto aluminum lugs. Honestly, these look like they were sourced from the same place that makes (made at the time) carbon fibre hockey stick shafts. A crude(ish) but wise and cost effective approach to a tricky problem: strength and light weight. They are the exact dimensions of a hockey stick, so I assume that's what they are. Buy 2 hockey stick shafts and you've got a rear triangle! Nice. Good for winter riding too...the rear derailleur cable uses a casing hidden in the seat stay runnng from the stopper located in the top tube shock mount, an nice touch that always kept it free of contamination for 3 years or more at a time.
On another point, am I recalling this incorrectly (?) or did I see a Herbold Miyata, very much a 10000, but with just a small bumper or cushion device inserted where the seat stays usually would bolt on as a type of limited travel system, like 1 or 1.5 inches travel. Was this actually a bike, or is my memory of 14 years ago just a bit wrong now? I think it was real, because I remember thinking, "Hey, can I make that gig for my own bike without wrecking it?" I wouldn't have thought that if it required a top tube shock mount, but I am almost sure I remember a Miyata at Ste. Anne with this small elastomer thing going on. Maybe it was an XC bike. Do you know about this at all or I am I getting my first memory failures?(!). Thanks
On another point, am I recalling this incorrectly (?) or did I see a Herbold Miyata, very much a 10000, but with just a small bumper or cushion device inserted where the seat stays usually would bolt on as a type of limited travel system, like 1 or 1.5 inches travel. Was this actually a bike, or is my memory of 14 years ago just a bit wrong now? I think it was real, because I remember thinking, "Hey, can I make that gig for my own bike without wrecking it?" I wouldn't have thought that if it required a top tube shock mount, but I am almost sure I remember a Miyata at Ste. Anne with this small elastomer thing going on. Maybe it was an XC bike. Do you know about this at all or I am I getting my first memory failures?(!). Thanks
Les,
On the ST Elev10k: It did exist!
HBall riding one in DS (I think) event:
(Koga) Miyata even had the intention to market it for the 1995 modelyear. Pic from the very 1st leaflet/catalogues for the '95 line up =>
Small damperunit, no pivot near the bracket. Titanium rear had to provide the necessary flex. Nice isn't it? The SkyCarbolite I took delivery of early 1995 hadn't the feature though. At some point in late '94 they decided not to go for the innovation. Officially I don't know why. For as far as I know there are no bikes with ST setup sold. In the official -very glossy - 1995 catalogue the SkyCarbolite was pictured with rigid rear.
Of course before I took delivery of the bike Koga asked me politely whether I was still willing to take delivery, but now without the damper. For me the bike had more 'unique selling points'. No problem.
Many more pics of Miyatas, also with the ST setup, overhere:
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=599
On the ST Elev10k: It did exist!
HBall riding one in DS (I think) event:
(Koga) Miyata even had the intention to market it for the 1995 modelyear. Pic from the very 1st leaflet/catalogues for the '95 line up =>
Small damperunit, no pivot near the bracket. Titanium rear had to provide the necessary flex. Nice isn't it?
The SkyCarbolite I took delivery of early 1995 hadn't the feature though. At some point in late '94 they decided not to go for the innovation. Officially I don't know why. For as far as I know there are no bikes with ST setup sold. In the official -very glossy - 1995 catalogue the SkyCarbolite was pictured with rigid rear.Of course before I took delivery of the bike Koga asked me politely whether I was still willing to take delivery, but now without the damper. For me the bike had more 'unique selling points'. No problem.
Many more pics of Miyatas, also with the ST setup, overhere:
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=599
Les S. Moore
Retro Newbie
Unproduced Miyata
Yeah, that's the bike alright...you have the whole history on Miyata for sure. You really are making me rethink another approach to buying my buddy's 10000 back from him. They replaced the 19" with a 17" as they were in the last phases of US/Can sales (I think) at that time, but it would make a killer upgrade for my wife who is on a Scott Reflex currently (I work for a Scott dealer). He never rode it really and I am sure it is in A1 condition...hmmm. I don't think he would sell it unless it was me anyway, so no rush really. I assume this is still quite a valuable bike even though is is probably 8 years old by now...in fact, do you have photo of a later 10000, the one where the lugs are black as well as the bike, looking much sleeker overall than the natural wrap look with yellow letters on the one I had? That would be cool to ponder over for the next year or so. Paying for it isn't the problem, just parting with the cash when I could get a dirt bike for the same price....hmmm again. It is a sweet looking frame though and I assume the toughness was still part of the build. Hey that reminds me, I do have a good photo of my 10000, at Mt. Tremblant, (shorting a kicker jump to get the pedals down quick...3rd place by 0.5 seconds over the series leader) that I bought from one of those guys who shows up to photograph every DHer on the day. I can dig that out too one day in 2008 and add it to the thread. Again thanks for explaining the mystery bike I saw once and never saw again...you should start a Miyata museum.
Yeah, that's the bike alright...you have the whole history on Miyata for sure. You really are making me rethink another approach to buying my buddy's 10000 back from him. They replaced the 19" with a 17" as they were in the last phases of US/Can sales (I think) at that time, but it would make a killer upgrade for my wife who is on a Scott Reflex currently (I work for a Scott dealer). He never rode it really and I am sure it is in A1 condition...hmmm. I don't think he would sell it unless it was me anyway, so no rush really. I assume this is still quite a valuable bike even though is is probably 8 years old by now...in fact, do you have photo of a later 10000, the one where the lugs are black as well as the bike, looking much sleeker overall than the natural wrap look with yellow letters on the one I had? That would be cool to ponder over for the next year or so. Paying for it isn't the problem, just parting with the cash when I could get a dirt bike for the same price....hmmm again. It is a sweet looking frame though and I assume the toughness was still part of the build. Hey that reminds me, I do have a good photo of my 10000, at Mt. Tremblant, (shorting a kicker jump to get the pedals down quick...3rd place by 0.5 seconds over the series leader) that I bought from one of those guys who shows up to photograph every DHer on the day. I can dig that out too one day in 2008 and add it to the thread. Again thanks for explaining the mystery bike I saw once and never saw again...you should start a Miyata museum.
Les,
I vaguely remember me a pic with a full black (full painted) Elev10k, but I am not sure I've saved it. If so, it is on another computer. Will turn back on this.
If you need a valuation for an old Miyata? PM me
Where in Europe are you btw?
On your museum comment: What do you think my house looks like?
I vaguely remember me a pic with a full black (full painted) Elev10k, but I am not sure I've saved it. If so, it is on another computer. Will turn back on this.
If you need a valuation for an old Miyata? PM me
Where in Europe are you btw?
On your museum comment: What do you think my house looks like?
