A couple of basic questions about gears and levers

[DrewSavage]

A tourer - the frame's a Raleigh Classic 15, with a Reynolds 531ST touring frame that I got off eBay for £21. It was in fairly terrible condition, and just advertised as 'bike' but I took a punt on it on the strength of the Reynolds sticker I'd spotted on it. At the moment I'm not planning on doing mega-long rides on it, more your sort of 3-day coast-to-coast or maybe London-Paris at some point, but you never know what I might build up to in the future.

The wheels and gears were only fit for the dustbin, but it had Cinelli handlebars and the frame was sound although there were lots of paint chips and a bit of surface rust. So I've stripped it and had it sprayed (I pick it up today) and will be basically building it up from scratch, or paying someone else to...

I won an eBay auction on an 8-speed Campag record rear derailleur at a reasonable price, so I've settled on wanting to build it up with a Campagnolo groupset as far as possible, buying the parts individually when I see a good deal rather than forking out for a whole groupset in one go. So far I've got matching Record brake lever/shifters designed for a triple with an 8-speed on the back, and a Campagnolo Racing T triple crankset, but annoyingly I was outbid for the Racing T triple front mech that went with them.

The Sugino chainset and SunTour power gear levers were worth saving, but are surplus to requirements so I guess I'll sell those on.

I found a brand new English thread 115mm Veloce bottom bracket on eBay that should be compatible with the frame and the Racing T triple cranks, and I'm wondering whether it's worth forking out for a Campagnolo headset (which seem to be twice the price of anything else on eBay) or just putting new bearings on the Tange one that's was originally on the bike. Plus I'm hunting for a 27.0mm seatpost, which seems to be a fairly obscure size.

I got a couple of old wheels for £20 with Fiamme tubular rims (which I didn't want and are a bit worn anyway) and original Campagnolo Record hubs which I'm salvaging from them. But they're 32 holes rather than 36, and small flange rather than large flange, and suddenly I'm wondering if that matters? And also wondering about cassettes and freewheels and other things I don't quite understand yet.

 

[DrewSavage]

Re:

It's funny, originally I was planning to go with SunTour components as that seemed to be more in keeping with early 80s Raleigh tourers - but then I realised that SunTour Superbe stuff is basically as expensive as Campagnolo, and then I got that Campag Record rear derailleur, and as the only SunTour component I had was the gear levers I decided to go down the Italian route.

And besides, there wasn't enough left of the original equipment for it to be worth keeping the bike original.

Things I have rounded up that *were* original equipment on the Raleigh Classic 15 are a pair of Blackburn pannier racks, and a Brooks B17 leather saddle. Although having bought a B17, I'm now wondering whether I'd be better off with a Flyer, which appears to be the same thing but with springs under it.

I've just seen a Classic 15 that was in great nick with all-original equipment go for £205 on eBay - I expect I'll probably end up spending more than that building mine up. Although I think it's more fun this way, and I'll probably have a higher-spec bike at the end of it.

 

[barry2017]

Traditionally, there were two sorts of tyres. Clinchers, which are what you think of as tyres, and tubulars, which are designed for racing by people who are so weight-obsessed they want to save the weight of two pieces of wire in the bead of each tyre. Some tubulars were for people so weight-obsessed, they were made of silk.

32 spoke wheels are again for people that want to save weight. I'm not sure if you're used to riding a road bike, but you have to learn how to ride with skinny tyres. You shift your weight around to avoid potholes, as a pothole means a flat tyre. 32 spoke rear wheels are never used on proper touring bikes like yours, because they are really a bit too fragile for carrying weight. 32 spokes is plenty on a front wheel, though, because it's undished and the back wheel is carrying 2 1/2 times as much weight.

Freewheel hubs have the freewheel and cogs as one unit which screws onto the side of the hub. Cassette hubs have freewheels as part of the hub, with cogs that slide onto the hub itself. The cassette system has completely taken over from freewheels because freewheels left the wheel with a lot of unsupported axle. Bent axles are a thing of the past now.

Honestly? You would not have something very durable if you go for an 8-speed freewheel back wheel. There will be a lot of axle replacement, unless you are very light and don't carry luggage. So if you really want to stick with Campag, find an 8-speed cassette and build a back wheel with that.

So, that's the back wheel sorted. Now, you need to think about the gears. What range are you going to need? Is the rear mech short or long cage?

 

[hamster]

Even the Campag cassette hubs have a long unsupported axle on the drive side like a freewheel hub. Shimano tied up the outboard bearing with a patent I believe. Much as it pains me to say it, avoid Campag rears which aren't really that suited to touring. They are fine for audax loads.

 

[DrewSavage]

Rats. What would you recommend, hamster? As well as the Campag Records, I have a pair of Shimano 600 hubs acquired as part of a job lot that I was going to sell on, but they're only 32-hole.

I'm only 5 foot 8 and weigh between 10 and a half and 11 stone, but on a 3-day trip I would be carrying a fair amount in my panniers. I'm not that good at travelling light. Chris, in answer to your question, I've been riding road bikes for only a few months - I've done thousands of miles on my Peugeot 3-speed commuter in the last 20 years, and last year I did the Way of the Roses coast to coast ride on the hybrid that I've now sold, but I'm not that confident at riding on drops yet. It's a fairly new skill to me. I've done 3 100km Audaxes with 2-3000 metres of climbing, but I'm fairly nervous down hills still. Having ridden with some experienced touring cyclists, it's my ambition to be able to descend like an old woman.

I think my Record rear derailleur is a short cage one, I'm not entirely sure how to tell.

One more piece of good news (I think) is that I won an auction for a Campag Comp Triple front mech for £15 posted earlier today. So bearing in mind the width of the back forks on a 1985 Raleigh that was originally designed to be a 5-speed, do you think I could get an 8-speed cassette in there?

 

[DrewSavage]

The other question that I've avoided thus far, and in fact will be avoiding until I've got my wheels built, is that of brakes. The Classic 15 was designed for 27-inch wheels and came with Raleigh-branded centre-pull Weinmann Vainqeur brakes. I've still got those and they've polished up quite nicely.

However, for ease of buying tyres as well as rims, I'm currently intending to have my wheels built with 700c rims rather than 27-inchers.

The fellers at my LBS say it's best to wait until the wheels are built, and on the bike, and then see what reach of brakes we need.

They were dubious about the stopping power of the Weinmanns, although I know they were the standard brake on tourers for many years. They thought modern dual pivot brakes would be better.

I've done a bit of research on the web and it seems that Campagnolo don't do long reach brakes at all. The Velo Orange Grand Cru brakes look quite nice, although they're pretty expensive. There's a Dia Compe centrepull option, but they seem to be just a modern remanufactured version of the Weinmanns.

Is there anything that springs to mind?

 

[KermitGKona88]

Re:

Hi Drew

Are you still after a band on triple Campagnolo front mech :?: :?:

 

[DrewSavage]

I've managed to source a braze-on Campagnolo comp triple for £15, and was hoping to bodge the band part from an old SunTour front mech that I've got. Might you have something nicer? I reckon I could probably sell on the one I've bought without making a loss.

 

[KermitGKona88]

Re:

28.6 Mirage triple band on £15 posted

 

[barry2017]

Traditionally, you have two types of caliper brake. Long drop, which gives you room for 28mm tyres and mudguards, and short drop which gives room for 25mm tyres with no mudguards, wh
A 700c conversion means a very long drop brake. Tektro make one which is excellent; I have a pair on my Raleigh Lenton. It gives room for a 32mm thee and mudguard. If your centrepulls fit, though, I would stick with those. Performance can be excellent but tuning them is a lost art. Kool stop pads and an alloy hanger will take the performance out of all recognition.