1994 GT Bravado vs. 1992 GT Richter...same frame?

[maroon113]

The GT Bravado was supposed to be higher up in the GT hierarchy than the Richter. Was this only based on the better component setup? Were the frames exactly the same? My 1994 GT Bravado is too small for me at a size 18", and sadly it is time to see her go. I have tried for years to make it fit me, with below average results. 2" riser bars, many fork spacers, a taller front tire vs rear tire (2.35" front with 2.0" in the rear). Just doesn't feel right. Plus that is not what the engineers designed to be done with the frame.

Long story short, a 20" GT Richter (1992?) has just popped up for sale in my area. It is the black bike in the photo. If this was the same frame as the 94 Bravado LE, going to grab it, no question. They are both True Temper GTX? Exact same steel used?

My garage has two GT hardtails, a 96 Zaskar and the Bravado. The Bravado is my favorite bike. A superb steel ride. Great balance of speed and suppleness. When you drive the cranks, there is no flex, it is very stiff and surges forward. When there are rough areas of the trail it swallows the bumps. In the same places the Zaskar would rattle my bones with electric shocks! With the steel frame I find rhythm, weave and flow through the trees. The aluminum has a nervous feel to it, like it doesn't want you riding on it. Although on smoother terrain the Zaskar is stunningly fast. A real feisty, hot-blooded Arabian horse.

Anyway, If anyone knows the difference in frame materials of the two steel frames in question, let me know please.

 

[T'boo Ted]

Re: GT Bravado vs. GT Richter...same frame?

well they aren't going to be exactly the same, one had u brake mounts

 

[maroon113]

Re:

Oh good catch, will have to leave the rear with the U-brake. A different fork with an Avid single-digit 7 v-brake in the front will provide adequate stopping power. Just want to know if the Richter will ride the same, or at least very similar to the Bravado. Have ridden some heavy, flexy steel frames in the past. Did not like the ride.

 

[maroon113]

Re:

Alright. Some hours searching and here is my result in regard to the frames:


1992 GT Richter 8.0: True Temper GTX double butted chromoly

1994 GT Bravado LE: Tange Prestige Concept and True Temper Heat Treated GTX-III double butted chromoly


So there seems to be a slight difference in the steel used, with the Bravado having a higher-end steel frame. However the Richter sounds like a fast and solid ride. It seems the 92 Richter had the same frame as the 92 Avalanche (white) and 92 Karakoram (Tequila Sunrise). But not the 92 "Team" Avalanche (yellow). The "Team" Avalanche having higher-end tubes than the former three frames. Although there was resounding praise on the forums, from people who had ridden the 92 Avalanche, Richter, and Karakoram. In 93 the Karakoram was put on more average Tange Double butted chromoly, and the 93 Richter went to Tange Prestige Concept/True Temper GTX double butted chromoly. (Breath). All things considered it looks like the 92 Richter was a great riding steel frame.

 

[SeeingisBelievingGTMuseum]

The GT Bravado was supposed to be higher up in the GT hierarchy than the Richter. Was this only based on the better component setup? Were the frames exactly the same? My 1994 GT Bravado is too small for me at a size 18", and sadly it is time to see her go. I have tried for years to make it fit me, with below average results. 2" riser bars, many fork spacers, a taller front tire vs rear tire (2.35" front with 2.0" in the rear). Just doesn't feel right. Plus that is not what the engineers designed to be done with the frame.

Long story short, a 20" GT Richter (1992?) has just popped up for sale in my area. It is the black bike in the photo. If this was the same frame as the 94 Bravado LE, going to grab it, no question. They are both True Temper GTX? Exact same steel used?

My garage has two GT hardtails, a 96 Zaskar and the Bravado. The Bravado is my favorite bike. A superb steel ride. Great balance of speed and suppleness. When you drive the cranks, there is no flex, it is very stiff and surges forward. When there are rough areas of the trail it swallows the bumps. In the same places the Zaskar would rattle my bones with electric shocks! With the steel frame I find rhythm, weave and flow through the trees. The aluminum has a nervous feel to it, like it doesn't want you riding on it. Although on smoother terrain the Zaskar is stunningly fast. A real feisty, hot-blooded Arabian horse.

Anyway, If anyone knows the difference in frame materials of the two steel frames in question, let me know please.

To start with I'd be questioning whether or not the bike you have pictured and call a 92 Richcter is in fact a 92 Richter because there never was any such model. The one you have pictured is an obvious repaint. I now this to be true because of the catalog and I'm in the process of a NOS 92 Richter 8.0 build up myself at the moment. There was a 92 Richter 8.0 which was flat black in color and had the groove tube top tube with the rear u-brake, adjustable rear dropouts and replaceable rear hanger. The original 92 Richter 8.0 was actually GT's first Front suspension model. It was only sold with a front suspension fork. GT had a few models they offered earlier with "optional" Rock Shox" forks but the 92 Richter 8.0 was the first GT that only came with a front suspension fork. The 92 GT Catalog shows the 92 Richter 8.0 as having a Tange MTB Double Butted tubing. The actual frames had a True Temper GTX label on the seat tube because GT was sourcing the famed "True Temper GTX Groove Tube" top tube only from True Temper.

I've owned a couple of the 94 GT Bravado LE's and their Tange Prestige Concept frames with the groove tube top tube were fantastic frames and I'm sure were slightly lighter than the 92 Richter 8.0 frames.

 

[maroon113]

Re:

Very insightful. Appreciated. So the 92 Richter 8.0, although having a "True Temper GTX double butted" sticker on the frame, was actually mostly Tange double butted?

Very interesting, your NOS frame has a flat black color. The one I am considering has a more glossy-black paint? It does have the groove tube, and has a similar appearance to the catalog picture. Same tan-colored Rock Shox fork as well.

I love that Bravado. And that word is not to be thrown around lightly. I can't say the same about my Zaskar or any past aluminum frame for that matter. In an ocean of older steel frames, it is difficult to find one similar. A stiff, sporty ride when pedaled, it likes going fast. However when the trail becomes rough it dampens the bumps very well. Bah! Should've bought a 20".

Here are some more pictures of the questionable Richter:

 

[maroon113]

Re:

I just don't understand why someone would create a fake Richter frame. You are not going to make that much more money in a GT Timberline------->Richter swap. A fake Psyclone or Bravado make sense. But I don't think people are doing that with the Richter. This frame seems like a genuine Richter.

 

[Rahbari]

Re:

The Frame in question is from 1992 as rear dropouts and U-Brake rear Show. This frame was used for the models Avalanche, Bravado, Karakoram and Richter 8.0. The difference between the models were the components used or the fork (Avalanche and Bravado had 3D, Karakoram had Chizel cut, Richter 8.0 had Rockshox) and of course the colour.

This frame should be a 1992 Richter 8.0, although the decals may have been damaged. If you find a 3D fork, you make this frameset technically identical to Bravado or Avalanche (if that helps).

Personally, I would prefer a 1992 model with Groove Tube over a 1994 Bravado. However, I would go with rigid forks.

 

[maroon113]

Re:

Very encouraging response. If this is the same frame as the Bravado and Avalanche of that year, then this is a quality frame indeed. Suitable for a build, a good steel mountain bike.

I already have a GT Bologna Lite fork that has been neglected alone for months. It is begging to be bolted onto something like this. A true Mavic 220 wheelset with Shimano LX hubs. This could be a proper rigid steel, XC flier. Very excited.