1950s/60s Frame Builder Identity

[Robbied196]

I bought this off fellow Retro member Tim (timkich). It seems to be a nice, well built frame with some very neat brazing but the big question is who built it?

I know the 50s are difficult as there were so many builders but it does have a couple of more unusual features that might pin it down. It has a lot of similarities to a Flying Scott but the frame numbers don't tie up. Here's what I have:

Frame number 349 57 - The obvious assumption is that it could be 349 from 1957. Frame and forks match

Nervex Professional lugs

Unusual fork drop outs - well I've not seen them before

Juy Simplex drop outs 120mm spacing

Semi wrap around seat stays

Curved rear brake bridge

Brazed on gear and brake cable guides

Offset seat post pump pegs - not seen those before either

No drilling for a headbadge

























You can't have enough pics

 

[lewisfoto]

What is the threading?

 

[originalshinkicker]

Looks like a Flying Scot to me. Had one hanging in the shop for many many years, fork ends looked just like that. Have a look at this...

http://www.flying-scot.com/frame_pages/frame_538c.html

 

[Robbied196]

What is the threading?

There's always something I miss :facepalm: Its 34.6 x 24, so English threaded.

 

[Robbied196]

Looks like a Flying Scot to me. Had one hanging in the shop for many many years, fork ends looked just like that. Have a look at this...

http://www.flying-scot.com/frame_pages/frame_538c.html

Thanks for the link. I did see that site but not the frame in the link.

Unfortunately the frame numbering doesn't seem to tie up. Its not numbered on the fork crown as Scot's should be. They did use 5 digit numbers until 1948 but introduced a letter from 1949. When they used the 5 digit frame number the last 2 numbers were the year which in this case if they hadn't introduced a letter, would be 1957. But also the number is centrally across the middle of the shell, Scot's seem to be numbered around the edge. Also the numbers on this frame are small (5mm) and very neat while Scot's seem to be larger and a bit more random in placement.

If it wasn't for the number I'd agree it was a Scot :|

 

[roadking]

Fork ends are not unusual for a 1940s or 1950s frame, Nervex lugs (as we all know) are a widely used lugset but these, as far as I can tell, are not handfinished-the shorelines being the giveaway.

The headlugs also have the-usually removed when handfinishing is evident-flange around the top and bottom lug. Pump peg position not unusual in my opinion.

Notwithstanding the numbering, it's not nice enough for a Scot (I have a few friends with Scots so I am familiar with them).

I know Tim and he always prices his frames fairly, and I'd say its a mid range frame but nothing special - possibly a trade frame.

Jon.

 

[Robbied196]

Fork ends are not unusual for a 1940s or 1950s frame, Nervex lugs (as we all know) are a widely used lugset but these, as far as I can tell, are not handfinished-the shorelines being the giveaway.

The headlugs also have the-usually removed when handfinishing is evident-flange around the top and bottom lug. Pump peg position not unusual in my opinion.

Notwithstanding the numbering, it's not nice enough for a Scot (I have a few friends with Scots so I am familiar with them).

I know Tim and he always prices his frames fairly, and I'd say its a mid range frame but nothing special - possibly a trade frame.

Jon.

Thank you for your input Jon. That's interesting about the headlugs not been handfinished so good to have a professional eye cast over it.

I've been here before with a couple of 50s frames and I know indentifying a builder can be like finding a needle in a haystack.

What is a trade frame?

 

[roadking]

What is a trade frame?

Many framebuilders built for shops to put their own transfers on.

Jon.

 

[Robbied196]

Still hoping to fluke an ID

Frame number digits are very neat and only 4mm high, ring any bells with anyone?