Why weren't ATBs a development of BMX?

[MattiThundrrr]

Come on up to Canada, we were having fun in the woods when BMX was being born

1975 CCM Bobcat - BMXmuseum.com

bmxmuseum.com

1978 CCM Commander 950 - BMXmuseum.com

bmxmuseum.com

1974 Norco DirtMaster - BMXmuseum.com

bmxmuseum.com

We already talked about the Norco Pro Cruiser, but check out this one, the oldest I've seen, from 1978

1978 Norco 26 - BMXmuseum.com

bmxmuseum.com

 

[MattiThundrrr]

I'd like to provide counter programming. Here's the Hall of Fame entry for the Koski brothers. Plenty of evidence that BMX and motorcycle pioneers were involved in the development of atb

The Koski Family's Cove Bike Shop | Marin Museum of Bicycling and Mountain Bike Hall of Fame

The Koski Family (Earl and Lil, sister Kris and brothers Erik, Dave and Don), worked together at their Cove Bike Shop, a comprehensive shop they founded in ...

mmbhof.org

"Don and Dave’s motocross background gave them a leg up in sourcing off-road parts for bicycles. In this period, before the internet, before mainstream bicycle magazines discovered the sport and before the founding of mountain bike magazines, mountain biking was barely known outside Northern California. In 1980, the family produced the “Trailmaster” catalog, the industry’s first mountain bike mail-order resource. It listed complete bikes for sale including Breezer, Laguna Cruiser and ProCruiser, and also framesets from Champion and Cook Brothers."

The first ever mountain bike catalog had bikes by at least 3 BMX bike builders

 

[MattiThundrrr]

How about Sturmey Archer using a BMX cruiser to force Raleigh into the mountain bike game?

Throwback Thursday: A Pristine Lawwill Knight Pro Cruiser That Has an Important Place in Mountain Bike History - Pinkbike

The Lawwill Knight Pro Cruiser was the first production mountain bike, and this one is in pristine condition.

m.pinkbike.com

Fantastic history from the original owner, a Product Manager at SA.

On the Lawwill Pro Cruiser:
"the bike borrowed heavily from the worlds of BMX and motorbike racing and therefore a lot of the features on this bike were well ahead of their time including the 1x drivetrain, hub-mounted brakes, four-bolt handlebar stem, and extra-wide bars."

 

[grey-beard]

How about Sturmey Archer using a BMX cruiser to force Raleigh into the mountain bike game?

Throwback Thursday: A Pristine Lawwill Knight Pro Cruiser That Has an Important Place in Mountain Bike History - Pinkbike

The Lawwill Knight Pro Cruiser was the first production mountain bike, and this one is in pristine condition.

m.pinkbike.com

Fantastic history from the original owner, a Product Manager at SA.

On the Lawwill Pro Cruiser:
"the bike borrowed heavily from the worlds of BMX and motorbike racing and therefore a lot of the features on this bike were well ahead of their time including the 1x drivetrain, hub-mounted brakes, four-bolt handlebar stem, and extra-wide bars."

I wonder what happened to the bike?

 

[MattiThundrrr]

I wonder what happened to the bike?

Moved to another living room wall?

 

[Black_puma]

And it could be argued that GT mountain bikes were bmx inspired but that was an 80s thing, not 1970s

GT already had 26" wheeled BMX bikes in the 80's which inspired my Tempest build, which originally started from my 1999 Tequesta which I bought to help me get back into cycling with a bad back (at that time, but has improved since, I gladly add)

Riser bar or riser stem?

Plenty of people ran 2.5 and 3" rise bars back in the 90's, usually Azonic but plenty of others with similar rise from that era. I run X-Lite risers on some of my bikes, don't look out of place if you use a slightly shorter stem. Pic of my Brodie below with risers.

www.retrobike.co.uk

 

[Caj Remtiw]

I think it is fair to say that any technological trends evolution spawns from several different "gene pools". A good example would be windsurfing coming from both sailing and surfing.

 

[ishaw]

Another discipline I hadn't come across until sometime in the 80s was cycling speedway. My next door neighbour was in to it. They had nobbly tires and I'm sure more sturdy frames designed to be thrown about. Iirc they had normal not BMX wheels (not sure what size though) and looked more MTB than road. No gears obviously. Not an evolution of the BMX, just an example that there were some other disciplines to borrow from back then.

I do think some responses are too bogged down in the BMX as a BMX. If one were scaled up for bigger wheels, you'd be a long way towards a mountain bike. So what if the BMX BB back then was a bit crap, wouldn't really have mattered much as you could still stick some gears out back and they would work.

I do think that the frame and forks would have worked but perhaps needed the influence of the road side for components.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

I do think some responses are too bogged down in the BMX as a BMX. If one were scaled up for bigger wheels, you'd be a long way towards a mountain bike. So what if the BMX BB back then was a bit crap, wouldn't really have mattered much as you could still stick some gears out back and they would work

There's an important detail being overlooked. The 26" alloy rim was developed for BMX bike cruisers and was adopted by mountain bike builders. If there was no BMX bikes, there would be a very different development, Gary wanted 650 wheels, but they didn't exist. His klunker (made before he founded the Mountain Bike company with Charlie, the reason they're called mountain bikes) has a Cook Bros (BMX) fork.
Picture from Being Gary Fisher

 

[MattiThundrrr]

More from Gary on the influence of moto and BMX in the early days:

And for reference, a Lawwill Pro Cruiser

Cam’s 1979 Lawwil Knight Pro Cruiser is a Drum Brake Blast From the Past! – California Travis

Mert Lawwil had already been a legendary motorcycle racer for years and was building and selling Harley Davidson flat-track racing frames with Terry Knight when they got the idea to weld up a batch of BMX bicycle frames. But Don Koski of the Cove Bicycle Shop in Tiburon, California (hangout spot...

theradavist.com

"Mert Lawwill went on to create many bicycle suspension designs over the years for Gary Fisher, Yeti, Schwinn, and others and was inducted into the Mountain Bike Hall of Fame in 1997."