Why 'STEEL IS REAL' - the science bit!

[novekili]

Does anyone know the thickness of 853? My IF deluxe (1998 series) is the best 26-inch bike I've ever tried, and this implies comparisons with 3 TI handmade in Italy bikes, 2 Kleins, 1 Merlin (well... a 1990 one), a Scapin, an Sworks Steel, and a carbon Scott Scale.
My alu FTW 29er rides better tho.... if you use 2.2 Spesh tubeless tires.

 

[novekili]

Does anyone know the thickness of 853? My IF deluxe (1998 series) is the best 26-inch bike I've ever tried, and this implies comparisons with 3 TI handmade in Italy bikes, 2 Kleins, 1 Merlin (well... a 1990 one), a Scapin, an Sworks Steel, and a carbon Scott Scale.
My alu FTW 29er rides better tho.... if you use 2.2 Spesh tubeless tires.

 

[Russell]

Good bicycles tend to be ones that are well designed, not ones made from a particular material. If a Kona Hot rides well, its despite the fact that its steel, not because of it.

Steel is popular as a material for bike building because it is easy to work, its as simple as that.

.

Utter bullshit.
Steel is popular because it is easy to work, durable, strong, cheap, and has the right properties for building a bike frame.
A kona Hot rides well because the designer harnesses these properties to achieve the ride characteristics he wants.

Utter bullshit? Nice.

You're basically agreeing with me but adding durable, strong and cheap.

What are 'the right properties for building a bike frame'? And how does a designer 'harness' them.

 

[Russell]

One aspect everyone seems to have overlooked is longevity...

...yes, you can build a modern composite frame out of all kind of exotic materials but you're not going to find a forum dedicated to them in 20+ years time because they're not designed to last that long.

I'm not so sure, there are plenty of composite bikes around now that are already 20yrs old. Modern composites will only last longer.

Wasnt John riding an OCLV in the lakes... how old is that? Must be 15yrs ish?

 

[FluffyChicken]

One aspect everyone seems to have overlooked is longevity...

...yes, you can build a modern composite frame out of all kind of exotic materials but you're not going to find a forum dedicated to them in 20+ years time because they're not designed to last that long.

I'm not so sure, there are plenty of composite bikes around now that are already 20yrs old. Modern composites will only last longer.

Wasnt John riding an OCLV in the lakes... how old is that? Must be 15yrs ish?

He was, but the carbon tubed treks predecessors to the OCLV, and the Brent Trimble engineered Trek is older (being their first and failed iirc other than tech knowledge transfer)



To the chap above 853 tubes vary depending on which type you specify, or indeed if the customer has the capacity to specify custom drawn tubing.
If you look in the Archive under Kona and look at the tech info for 1997 HOT and 1998 Explosif you'll see the Explosif is speced with .1 thicker tubing of 853. But it'll give you an idea.

Thought I would pop to Reynolds website, have a read http://reynoldstechnology.biz/assets/pd ... xtract.pdf
and in there you'll have an email address for the larger heavily detailed version. Not something I'm going to bother with though.

 

[shaun]

The Custom Steel Market is the place to play. I have a custom touring frame made from Columbus Max and Max OR, that bike was a riot to ride and rode so fast because the back end felt like it had springs in it that pushed you forward with every pedal stroke.

.....well put 'Broken Biker' you sum up the 'feel' of the ride of a quality steel well designed frame better than I ever could, thats exactly how it feels, thanks.

 

[suburbanreuben]

One aspect everyone seems to have overlooked is longevity...

...yes, you can build a modern composite frame out of all kind of exotic materials but you're not going to find a forum dedicated to them in 20+ years time because they're not designed to last that long.

I'm not so sure, there are plenty of composite bikes around now that are already 20yrs old. Modern composites will only last longer.

Wasnt John riding an OCLV in the lakes... how old is that? Must be 15yrs ish?

But one small chip in the top tube and you'll never trust it the same way again...

 

[Easy_Rider]

My Parkpre Pro825

8 to 5

0.8mm to 0.5mm

 

[suburbanreuben]

Good bicycles tend to be ones that are well designed, not ones made from a particular material. If a Kona Hot rides well, its despite the fact that its steel, not because of it.

Steel is popular as a material for bike building because it is easy to work, its as simple as that.

.

Utter bullshit.
Steel is popular because it is easy to work, durable, strong, cheap, and has the right properties for building a bike frame.
A kona Hot rides well because the designer harnesses these properties to achieve the ride characteristics he wants.

Utter bullshit? Nice.

You're basically agreeing with me but adding durable, strong and cheap.

What are 'the right properties for building a bike frame'? And how does a designer 'harness' them.

I don't think I am basically agreeing with you. Whatever gave you that idea? You seem to think steel is ONLY popular because it's easy to work. That is one plus point, but as I point out, there are many others, and you ignore entirely the fact that the metallurgical properties of steel are ideally suited to giving a bicycle the dynamic properties necessary.
Maybe you should contact Reynolds, Columbus, True Temper etc and point out that they're wasting their time. I'm sure they enjoy a titter on Moday mornings.

 

[Russell]

So, i'll ask again...

What are the right properties that steel posses for building a bike, how does a designer harness them?

I'll add...

What are the metallurgical properties that steel posesses that give bikes the dynamic properties necessary and what are those dynamic properties?

Who is suggesting that Reynolds et al are wasting their time? There is clearly a market for well designed, well built steel frames, but in my view steel has been superceded as the frame material of choice by titanium and newer composites.