Why 'STEEL IS REAL' - the science bit!

[biglev]

Steel has come a long way baby.

The newer Columbus tubes have Nobium in which apart from being a tough metal also allows you to get the tubes hoter when building even welding with out heat damage. Tube are much more corrosion resitant with Chrome and Vanadium in even stainless tubes now. Even the the brazing rods and welding rods are better. You used to use generic brass alloy rods but a SIF 101 rod will give you much improved strenght and a 9% nickle rod will give you a very strong joint. This saves you weight as you can smaller fillets.

But my most loved thing is that you can repair bikes that are beyond saving in most other materieals. I bought a 20 year old roberts and found the whole front end was rotten. Cut it off make a new one braze it on. Job done. You would be a brave man to do that in alloy (even if you own a heat treating oven).

Long live steel! (no actually, long live.... like 50 years if you look after it!)

 

[shaun]

Just found the following on the Reynolds website, has any body either got or tried a bike made from Stainless 953?

REYNOLDS 953 MARAGING STAINLESS STEEL
Reynold' latest innovation takes steel alloys into a new league. By utilising a specially developed martensitic-aging stainless steel alloy that can achieve tensile strength in excess of 2000 MPa, with a strength-to-weight ratio that can take on the best in the world. The resilient ride of steel, very high impact strength (similar to armour plating) and fatigue resistance combine to provide an extraordinary material that can now be used for tubing.

Reynolds work directly with fabricators to provide recommended production techniques, so that the challenges inherent in using an extremely hard metal can be overcome.

953 - the Age of the SuperSteel.

Why it works:

UTS: 1750-2050 MPa, density 7.8 gm/cc

High strength and stainless designation from very low carbon, chromium, nickel, titanium, manganese etc. Iron-Nickel martensitic lath crystals are formed after annealing/cooling and the formation of fine inter-metallic precipitates after ageing are reflected in the high tensile strength but reasonably ductile properties. Low carbides allow machinability despite the near tool steel hardness.

I LIKE THE SOUND OF THIS!

 

[SeeingisBelievingGTMuseum]

Just found the following on the Reynolds website, has any body either got or tried a bike made from Stainless 953?

REYNOLDS 953 MARAGING STAINLESS STEEL
Reynold' latest innovation takes steel alloys into a new league. By utilising a specially developed martensitic-aging stainless steel alloy that can achieve tensile strength in excess of 2000 MPa, with a strength-to-weight ratio that can take on the best in the world. The resilient ride of steel, very high impact strength (similar to armour plating) and fatigue resistance combine to provide an extraordinary material that can now be used for tubing.

Reynolds work directly with fabricators to provide recommended production techniques, so that the challenges inherent in using an extremely hard metal can be overcome.

953 - the Age of the SuperSteel.

Why it works:

UTS: 1750-2050 MPa, density 7.8 gm/cc

High strength and stainless designation from very low carbon, chromium, nickel, titanium, manganese etc. Iron-Nickel martensitic lath crystals are formed after annealing/cooling and the formation of fine inter-metallic precipitates after ageing are reflected in the high tensile strength but reasonably ductile properties. Low carbides allow machinability despite the near tool steel hardness.

I LIKE THE SOUND OF THIS!

Wher have you been the past three years? It's been out there a while and there have been delivery problems and many of the custom builder that Have tried it haven't been overly happy with it. A number of frames done in it the past three years at the NAHBS show.

 

[MikeD]

The new Reynolds thing is 931, which is similar to 953 but cheaper. Although still rather expensive to make a frame from -- you get something that's a little lighter than an 853 frame but costs three times as much, which isn't all that compelling.

 

[Matthews]

showed how much springiness there was in his Orange Clockwork frame by leaning it away from him and pressing most of his weight through the bb shell, it must have deflected more than half an inch.

This is not always a good thing. I had a early Dawes Galaxy tourer that did the above. When heavily loaded and descending steep hills a tank slapper effect could occur where by the entire frame flexed laterally and messed up the handling to worrying degrees. Later 80's Galaxies cured this by greater diameter tubing in the top and down tubes but of course this added weight. Although Aluminium cant be repaired by a backwoods welder I can see why several tourer makers opt for aluminium frames such as Cannondale and Koga Myata.

30 years ago I had an Elswick Hopper Mistral road bike that used to do similar, the frame flexed like hell whilst under load uphill but was fine at all other times unless panniers were fitted and loaded, then it was interesting (especially over Wrynose and Hardnot with a weeks gear on board).
Matthew

 

[Neil]

30 years ago I had an Elswick Hopper Mistral road bike that used to do similar, the frame flexed like hell whilst under load uphill but was fine at all other times unless panniers were fitted and loaded, then it was interesting (especially over Wrynose and Hardnot with a weeks gear on board).
Matthew

Just out of interest, what colour was your Mistral in - I think my brother had one, in a metallic green, although think I saw them in metallic purple, too.

 

[hot chilli]

im a big fan of steel frames, but im also a big fan of full suspension bikes but sadly for me the two have never gone hand in hand.

after seeing many cracked ally frames up the woods as a kid , i just always had more trust in steel frames.

i would like to see more steel full suspension frames but i just dont see it happening.

as for hard tails.. got to be steel that bit more give makes for a better ride.

 

[02gf74]

Steel is strong, but its specific strength is less than either aluminium or titanium. The reason you can build a steel mtb frame with thinner walls than either aluminium or titanium is simply that its density is greater.

.

arrggghhh!!!! the second time this statement has cropped up.

no, that is not the case think of lead very dense so according to that statement the wall thickness would be paper thin yet how soft is lead and how many lead frame Treks have been made?

there re other examples where the relationship is not valid

 

[shaun]

Steel is strong, but its specific strength is less than either aluminium or titanium. The reason you can build a steel mtb frame with thinner walls than either aluminium or titanium is simply that its density is greater.

.

arrggghhh!!!! the second time this statement has cropped up.

no, that is not the case think of lead very dense so according to that statement the wall thickness would be paper thin yet how soft is lead and how many lead frame Treks have been made?

there re other examples where the relationship is not valid

...........but it works in steel, because steel has the correct balance of strength, toughness and rigidity to allow such a thinness of the butted tubing which helps give a quality steel frame that certain 'feel'. Give a retro Kona Explosif or Hot a go sometime to see what we are all talking about.

 

[Russell]

Steel is strong, but its specific strength is less than either aluminium or titanium. The reason you can build a steel mtb frame with thinner walls than either aluminium or titanium is simply that its density is greater.

.

arrggghhh!!!! the second time this statement has cropped up.

no, that is not the case think of lead very dense so according to that statement the wall thickness would be paper thin yet how soft is lead and how many lead frame Treks have been made?

there re other examples where the relationship is not valid

Quite, and mercury even more dense again. Ever tried to make a bike out of mercury?

Good bicycles tend to be ones that are well designed, not ones made from a particular material. If a Kona Hot rides well, its despite the fact that its steel, not because of it.

Steel is popular as a material for bike building because it is easy to work, its as simple as that.

With modern material manipulation and composite manufacturing techniques it is 'easy' to build bikes lighter and stronger than steel ones but with the same, or better ride characteristics. The problem is that the man in a shed with his blowtorch can't do it and cycling is a very traditional sport, hence the constant 'steel is real' nonsense perpetuated by the traditionalists.