toaster999
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Er..not sure it has one? Any U.K manufactures back in the day build the same quality and stir the same emotions?
Who is the U.K equivilent of FAT City Cycles?
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loads but unfortunately too understated to attract any hype.
Hotwheels.
Old School Grand Master
Plenty to match on quality: Roberts, Yates, Bromwich, Lloyd, Rourke, Overburys, but all very small volume, even compared to the small volume FATs. They never quite had the same buzz as the FAT brand though, I would say the nearest on that score would be the early Orange bikes, they were cool.
P.s. Bit of a Zola Budd moment, but we're claiming Fuquay too!
P.s. Bit of a Zola Budd moment, but we're claiming Fuquay too!
Not sure I would consider Orange as the same quality, but they shared the same hype, just an Ocean apart.
Cant say I would consider any of the suggested small British Bespoke Builders as a comparison either, building each individual bike to suit its rider is not what Fat chance did on the Whole.
No....... FWIW I think the closest Comparsion would be to look for a UK brand that "handbuilt" bikes, yet provided a commercially available "range" of bikes.
And also a brand that was innovative in its approach.
To compare I feel in impossible, but if you could draw comparisons from like minded folk, given a single point in time.......to my mind there can be only one. Taking the Marketing effect out of the equation of course...., and both companies had there fair share of troubles too.
Cant say I would consider any of the suggested small British Bespoke Builders as a comparison either, building each individual bike to suit its rider is not what Fat chance did on the Whole.
No....... FWIW I think the closest Comparsion would be to look for a UK brand that "handbuilt" bikes, yet provided a commercially available "range" of bikes.
And also a brand that was innovative in its approach.
To compare I feel in impossible, but if you could draw comparisons from like minded folk, given a single point in time.......to my mind there can be only one. Taking the Marketing effect out of the equation of course...., and both companies had there fair share of troubles too.
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M-Power
Old School Grand Master
^^^ 100% agree with this. I have never had the pleasure of owning or riding a Zinn but its got that something special about it...you kind of know its going to have an incredible ride and feel to it
An example a 1989 Fat Chance Team Comp
This is a quote from Scott Bengston who welded ALL the Team Comps for Fat back then:
The George Wilson dropouts are cast from 17-4 PH stainless steel (the PH stands for precipitation hardening). I welded them to the 4130 tubes using SS 309L filler metal. I think by 1990 I was purging the insides of the chainstays when I was welding them but I'm not 100% sure now. The GW drops were at least 10 times the price of steel Shimano drops but so much nicer! We used some other stainless drops later that were machined from plate but I forget who made those.
The tube set was a mix of Dillsburg aircraft 4130 and Tange Prestige which was much more expensive than the True Temper since it was was seamless drawn tubing. All of the True Temper tubing that was 1" diameter and larger was seam welded. The Tange tubing was imported from Japan and it was made in a Japanese factory and not in Taiwan or mainland China. It was nice stuff but it was really intended to be brazed. The True Temper tubing actually welded better. The early Team Comps also came with a box crown fork that used Tange blades and a Columbus steerer tube that was rifled. Since we had a number of box crown forks fail, I think that's why that one has a unicrown. I think we used Campy dropouts for the forks. I don't remember using stainless for the front drops.
I welded virtually all of the Team Comps that came out of Somerville from 87 on since they were the high end of high ends and Chris only wanted me to weld them. We had some other good welders but I was the lead and the only certified inspector and welding engineer on the staff.
Regards
Scott Bengtson
Somerville chief welder 1986 -1994
FCC fillet brazed their frames early on as well as sone lug work but experimented with the above techniques to produce bikes that had/have an incredible ride feel, handling etc - like nothing else at the time. I can remember one of my staff leaving to join Chas Roberts as a trainee frame builder in the early 90s but even their frames used at least 7oz more material to fillet braze the frames, lovely though they were.
British engineering and design has always been cutting edge and we all admire and respect it so here's hoping this doesn't descend into a bashing thread.
An example a 1989 Fat Chance Team Comp
This is a quote from Scott Bengston who welded ALL the Team Comps for Fat back then:
The George Wilson dropouts are cast from 17-4 PH stainless steel (the PH stands for precipitation hardening). I welded them to the 4130 tubes using SS 309L filler metal. I think by 1990 I was purging the insides of the chainstays when I was welding them but I'm not 100% sure now. The GW drops were at least 10 times the price of steel Shimano drops but so much nicer! We used some other stainless drops later that were machined from plate but I forget who made those.
The tube set was a mix of Dillsburg aircraft 4130 and Tange Prestige which was much more expensive than the True Temper since it was was seamless drawn tubing. All of the True Temper tubing that was 1" diameter and larger was seam welded. The Tange tubing was imported from Japan and it was made in a Japanese factory and not in Taiwan or mainland China. It was nice stuff but it was really intended to be brazed. The True Temper tubing actually welded better. The early Team Comps also came with a box crown fork that used Tange blades and a Columbus steerer tube that was rifled. Since we had a number of box crown forks fail, I think that's why that one has a unicrown. I think we used Campy dropouts for the forks. I don't remember using stainless for the front drops.
I welded virtually all of the Team Comps that came out of Somerville from 87 on since they were the high end of high ends and Chris only wanted me to weld them. We had some other good welders but I was the lead and the only certified inspector and welding engineer on the staff.
Regards
Scott Bengtson
Somerville chief welder 1986 -1994
FCC fillet brazed their frames early on as well as sone lug work but experimented with the above techniques to produce bikes that had/have an incredible ride feel, handling etc - like nothing else at the time. I can remember one of my staff leaving to join Chas Roberts as a trainee frame builder in the early 90s but even their frames used at least 7oz more material to fillet braze the frames, lovely though they were.
British engineering and design has always been cutting edge and we all admire and respect it so here's hoping this doesn't descend into a bashing thread.
M-Power":1vb9i41l said:^^^ 100% agree with this. I have never had the pleasure of owning or riding a Zinn but its got that something special about it...you kind of know its going to have an incredible ride and feel to it
An example a 1989 Fat Chance Team Comp
This is a quote from Scott Bengston who welded ALL the Team Comps for Fat back then:
The George Wilson dropouts are cast from 17-4 PH stainless steel (the PH stands for precipitation hardening). I welded them to the 4130 tubes using SS 309L filler metal. I think by 1990 I was purging the insides of the chainstays when I was welding them but I'm not 100% sure now. The GW drops were at least 10 times the price of steel Shimano drops but so much nicer! We used some other stainless drops later that were machined from plate but I forget who made those.
The tube set was a mix of Dillsburg aircraft 4130 and Tange Prestige which was much more expensive than the True Temper since it was was seamless drawn tubing. All of the True Temper tubing that was 1" diameter and larger was seam welded. The Tange tubing was imported from Japan and it was made in a Japanese factory and not in Taiwan or mainland China. It was nice stuff but it was really intended to be brazed. The True Temper tubing actually welded better. The early Team Comps also came with a box crown fork that used Tange blades and a Columbus steerer tube that was rifled. Since we had a number of box crown forks fail, I think that's why that one has a unicrown. I think we used Campy dropouts for the forks. I don't remember using stainless for the front drops.
I welded virtually all of the Team Comps that came out of Somerville from 87 on since they were the high end of high ends and Chris only wanted me to weld them. We had some other good welders but I was the lead and the only certified inspector and welding engineer on the staff.
Regards
Scott Bengtson
Somerville chief welder 1986 -1994
FCC fillet brazed their frames early on as well as sone lug work but experimented with the above techniques to produce bikes that had/have an incredible ride feel, handling etc - like nothing else at the time. I can remember one of my staff leaving to join Chas Roberts as a trainee frame builder in the early 90s but even their frames used at least 7oz more material to fillet braze the frames, lovely though they were.
British engineering and design has always been cutting edge and we all admire and respect it so here's hoping this doesn't descend into a haters or bashing thread.
Informative with a great level of Respect.
Class...
Hotwheels.
Old School Grand Master
sinnerman":2p0wut3n said:
I never mentioned Orange in the 'same quality' list, I said on the 'hype/cool' score they were equivalent.
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