Which Raleigh is this?

[doctor-bond]

I've recently acquired a frame which is to become a do it all workhorse: town bike, day-rider, commuter - bicycle transport.

I've got an idea what it is, but could do with some pointers from the Raleighscenti among you. (It might even have passed through other RB hands in previous years.)








Can't make out the frame number or dropout marks under a nasty but useful powdercoat. It's a 59/60cm frame, takes a 27.2 post, is very pingy and weighs 4 3/4 lb.







What dya reckon?

 

[Goldie]

Spoke holders opn chainstay, canti mounts, rack mounts - Randonneur? I've only seen one in the flesh (which I then criminally failed to purchase as a result of ebay incompetence) but there's a thread with a few pitcures in it on the CTC forum: http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7775

And I'm sure I've seen one on here.

 

[roadking]

Agree,

and I love the colour, nearly the same as my 1978 Holdsworth Mistral.

Looks like a powder coat though.

Roadking.

 

[doctor-bond]

Cheers chaps, I'd heard about Randonneurs having the spoke holders. However, I've had a good squint at the BB shell and it looks like the serial begins with 'H'.

Wouldn't that make it quite a late bike from 1998? Were Raleigh still making high end tourers by then? I'm struggling to find a catalogue.


PS - I read somewhere about some bikes having the spoke holder on the drive side, some on the sinsister side, and this being an indicator of who built it. Is there anything to that?


much obliged

 

[cooper-climax]

It doesn't look quite like my Randonneur. The spoke holders are on the other chainstay, the chainstay bridge is different, and the slugs in the top of my seatstays are embossed Raleigh.

Other bits look right though, the pump peg on the head tube, double eyes for mudguards and racks the same cable hanger for the rear brake.

Mine is from about '91 so your's could be the later model. I know they changed the colour, and I think they also stopped using 531st for something more modern.

 

[cooper-climax]

I should have checked before I posted. It looks like your's could be one of the later Blue 708 frames have a look at the photos at the bottom of this page... http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7775&sid=fcd544bb13ee2511f258f2e6dbdfe1c3&start=30

Its an interesting thread by the way.[/url]

 

[doctor-bond]

Thanks CC - you're right - that link shows an 'H Plate' Randonneur with a 'halfbridge' chainstay so we could be onto something.

The Reynolds 708 tubing also makes sense: I've never encountered quite such a lightweight, thin-walled touring frame before.

To complicate matters, a quick hunt on RB has unearthed an RSP catalogue scan from 1997. This shows an identical-looking frame which is billed as Gran Tour, built from 708 Classic.

So, as far as I can work out, the Randonneur was built with Reynolds 708 Touristique, whereas the Gran Tour was built with Reynolds 708 Classic. Does this make sense?

Now, info on 708 Touristique is hard to find. The skinny on 708 Classic is posted below though. Looks like it was a late blossoming of Reynolds heat treated range with internal longitudinal reinforcement. Can't wait to try it out.


So, the big question is, where all 708-framed bikes built by RSP, or did the Randonneurs get made at the normal factory and the Gran Tours in the bat cave?

 

[cooper-climax]

My understanding is shaky on this, so I'm happy to be told I'm wrong. But:

I think there was the Lightweight Unit between the normal factory and the Special Products bat cave. The lightweights made the nice production stuff, and Special Products was more or less all custom work. SP frames have different serial numbers. Every Randonneur I've seen has had a "lightweight special tourer" sticker.

531st is just a standard 531 tube-set with a heavier gauge down tube (And stays?) it's just a matter of a tenth of a millimeter or so. I'd guess that 708t is a similar sort of thing. The extra weight will make no difference to a tourer (IMO).

If your frame rides half as nicely as mine you're sure to love it.

 

[one-eyed_jim]

It's certainly a late nineties Randonneur or Royal. Royals were green, Randonneurs were teal blue. They shared a frame, the Royal having cheaper components. I had a Randonneur which I foolishly gave to my father: I've been regretting my generosity ever since.

Randonneurs were made at RSP until about the year 2000. The final models were very posh, with a full XT 9-speed groupset and Magura hydraulic brakes. I don't know much about the Gran Tour (one was hanging in Williams Cycles in Cheltenham in the late nineties), but I assume the frames were built at RSP alongside the Randonneurs and Royals.

708 Touristique used an oversized top tube (28.6mm) and may have used heavier gauges in the other tubes. I've got a feeling the dimensions are given in Tony Oliver's "Touring Bikes: A Practical Guide". I can check the serial number of my dad's bike in a day or two, but I assume it will have the same format as the one pictured above.

 

[doctor-bond]

Nice one Jim - insightful as ever. Mr Vernier tells me my top tube OD is 29mm dead. So taking the powdercoat into account, it looks like oversize Touristique is the likely tubeset.

Whatever the stickers once said, it looks like I've got a light and beautifully built frame to play with. I like the colour and need a tough coating, so the powder will stay for now.

I'm going to start with some fast wheels and parts bin components to test the ride. I suspect the choice of tyres and handlebars will be everything. Quick, simple and comfy is the goal.