When did it start going rubbish?

[SilverSurfer]

Disagree about the grumpy thing. Yes I am grumpy, but the debate is about the feel and honesty of a good frame from the old days. This seems to have been overlooked in the quest for selling more product.

I do like some new advances as well, clipless pedals, hub gears and good quality cable discs (not convinced about hydro discs).

Never got on with suspension and as LGF says the suspension corrected geometry is a pain. Personally I don't think too much choice is good either - remember when you just went for DX, LX or XT? Wouldn't know where to start these days.

 

[kaiser]

So if you don't even have an inkling about modern groupsets would it be fair to say your knowledge of modern bikes is limited too? I'm not saying you but alot of these threads happen after someone has walked around halfords or evans and say 'pah modern bikes are crap, they all look the same'

 

[SilverSurfer]

Not Halfords but J.E. James actually - same response though.

I know enough as I have spent the last 6 years mainly on modern road bikes. As I keep stressing, I like some advances so it's not like I'm a total Luddite.

Don't you prefer old bike design then?

 

[kaiser]

I do prefer the aesthetic of older bikes but I love what modern bikes can do. Older bikes indeed have nicer lines and coupled with nostalgia they have a higher value than their net worth, I enjoy building and collecting them and occasionally in the right circumstances riding them. But discs do allow me to stop in the foulest of conditions, suspension allows me to go faster and further and makes up for a lack of finesse. Modern kit is reliable and fairly cheap and I don't mind ruining it, its also easily replaceable. I'm even more convinced of modern road bikes too I'm afraid, lighter, faster stiffer and stronger.

 

[one-eyed_jim]

For me it all started going slightly squiffy with the advent of A-headsets and V-brakes, a pox on them!

See, I'm a fan of both. Perhaps not in a pure retro context, but as somebody who's always used a bike as transport as well as for leisure, both have practical advantages.

The problem for me was that they arrived in the mainstream at about the same time as other practical aspects of mountain bikes were disappearing. There was a relatively narrow window when it was possible to find an off-the-peg rigid mountain bike with a light steel frame, threadless fork, V-brakes, a decent groupset (say LX or above), and rack and mudguard mounts. Steel was dying as a mainstream material, suspension was becoming ubiquitous, and rack mounts were vanishing at about the same time as V-brakes and A-headsets were arriving.

If I were in the market for a custom bike today, it would have a rigid, threadless fork, a light, TIG-welded steel frame, rack and mudguard mounts ... and disk brakes.

 

[dyna-ti]

I really dont like these new fangled hydro-formed tubes with the up tube bent at the top.Truly hideous :x

 

[reanimation]

Echoing the points about the multi genres of riding styles, I agree, real confusing getting back into biking, I really liked look of 4X bikes, best of big tall MTB and playful BMX, erm well not quite, Its taken me a few years to suss my own current style and ability and wants from a bike, Retro biking has taken me back to my roots of just building a bike with passion and going riding where i want, how I want. alot of pressure and peers and confusion out there. I know love the new stuff, OK its going retro again, but i do, can't wait to build a proper new bike but also I now appreciate and love old stuff too, when its gone its gone.

Scenes move on and have their own trends with new kids, remember all the hassle ya got off ya folks, who were annoyed cos they'd been there done that?...

But what is strange I rocked up at BMX track on my 4x/trail, Dirt jump lookeelikey bike and the 15year old lad on a similar production Norco, asks me if I ride "Cross Country" I said yes, cos in teh genre confusion, this lad thinks that "Cross Country" means mountain biking as we knew it BITD. I'm glad to see 'Trail' has come back as a category as its always been the closest thing to a lot of our riding well now 'Freeride' means jumping over busses and creative downhill!

For me the dark moments were Ugly boneshaker Alu frames, and full suss lifestyle bikes.

Gotta say, biking is pretty healthy at the mo, so mostly all good. I just wanna see more and more decent UK production and exciting new and old trick bits available.

Future's bright... probably

 

[drpaddle]

It was the lycra!

The corruption of frames and equipment was merely a symptom, for the plague fell upon us when lycra infected mountain biking. When hiking shorts, tee-shirts, and running shoes were all we used, cycling was pure, the air scented, the very dirt clean. A beautifully scratched and scraped 4130 or reynolds frame, with Campi tips, some sweet TA cranks, the sweet squeal of Mafac cantis: such was the hardware of the angels. Then, like the forest fire in Bambi, the lycra came upon the land. Garish colors, tight fabric on untight bodies, snug black shorts that didn't even have the good sense to be woolen... the new creatures in the forest lacked souls. And, without souls, they had no connection to the ancient and revered generations of steel, aluminum, leather, and rubber that we rode astride in harmony with all. Fast upon the lycra came the aluminum frames, the suspended forks, the disc brakes, the plastic seats, the sealed bearings, and the end of days. I fled...

 

[legrandefromage]

/\/\/\/\/\/\ what he said and to add, current stuff is sanitized, simple as that.

'I can go faster to make up for the lack of finesse' - whats the point in that?

When did it all get so competitive?

I'm reminded of some of the knobheads I encountered at Thetford back in June - shouting at us to get out of the way as if it was their right to barge through just because they rode fast for about 20mins then went home. I could do that but I dont quite see the point.

You miss out on moments like this:

 

[gradeAfailure]

Isn't it funny that half the people in this thread are claiming that biking now is about the kit rather than the ride, then go on to proclaim how much they hate the look of modern bikes...?

Surely for people riding the modern bikes, with discs that work better and don't destroy your rims, suspension that allows you to cross rougher terrain, go further and faster, it is all about the ride?

Most of you seem to be guilty of severe prejudice and are lumping everyone who rides modern into the Red-Bull-North-Shore-X-Games category... Wouldn't you agree that more people on bikes is a good thing, regardless of their chosen influences?

We ride retro, not because it's necessarily better, but because it satisifes in us a desire to return to a time when our lives were simpler and so were bicycles. The nostalgia that it evokes is no bad thing - yet consider someone whose golden years of cycling were 20 years before ours; they would regard what we're riding as new-fangled and un-needed. Are they right? Are we? Does it really matter?

If you want any proof that biking as you know and love is still alive, go read the Passion forum on MTBR - there you will find image after image of stunning scenery, early mornings, sunsets, mountains (real ones too, not just hills!), amazing singletrack, rock-strewn paths, and the rest. People who understand what the purest essence of mountain biking is about. And nearly all of the riders will be using 5"+ travel modern full-suspension bikes.

So you don't want to ride faster, that's fine by me. I have no problem with the speed that anyone else wants to pootle along at. Why do you have such an issue with anyone that wants to ride fast? At the age of 33 I have discovered a desire to ride harder, faster, and over more and more difficult terrain than ever before. I love my old-school Marin, which is why I'm not going to ruin it by riding it how I now want to ride. Does this mean that if I buy a modern bike I suddenly won't be able to appreciate the amazing views and beautiful countryside that I do now?

With all your indiscriminate prejudices, and Daily Mail-like views on what you think everybody else should be riding (so you don't want "suspension corrected geometry" or discs - fine, don't buy them then! No-one is forcing you to...), you are what's wrong with mountain biking, not the people riding dirt jumps, North Shore, drop-offs, or just good old trails on their hydroformed, disc-braked, "monstrosity".

At least they seem to be enjoying themselves...!