When did it start going rubbish?

[Dr S]

1989


Simple as that.

 

[Anthony]

If you don't like modern things, it's just a sign that you're old.

With maturity comes discernment. That arrives at different ages for different people.

I don't think I agree Jacques. I feel sure you see young females walking around Paris who, despite being no doubt immature in many ways, have shown excellent discernment in which clothes they have selected and which they have not selected.

The old tend to lack discernment, in that they think all modern things are bad.

 

[one-eyed_jim]

I feel sure you see young females walking around Paris who, despite being no doubt immature in many ways, have shown excellent discernment in which clothes they have selected and which they have not selected.

I wouldn't suggest that we become equally discerning in all areas at the same instant, but it's often the case that we progress from following other peoples' rules to developing our own tastes as our discernment develops. One can show a certain degree of discernment in the rules one chooses to follow, of course, but true discernment comes from knowing oneself, and that takes maturity. I'm not equating maturity with age.

The law of the new is the law of the market. Discernment is understanding that not all change is progress.

The old tend to lack discernment, in that they think all modern things are bad.

I would say that the mature show discernment in understanding that newer isn't necessarily better.

 

[legrandefromage]

not all change is progress.

Oui!!!!

 

[drpaddle]

With maturity comes discernment. That arrives at different ages for different people.

Hey, if I'm going to refuse to ride modern bikes, then I'm darn well going to refuse to get mature and discerning! I'll grow older, but not up, thank you!

 

[one-eyed_jim]

Hey, if I'm going to refuse to ride modern bikes, then I'm darn well going to refuse to get mature and discerning! I'll grow older, but not up, thank you!

Spoken like a man who knows his own mind!

 

[Anthony]

I would say that the mature show discernment in understanding that newer isn't necessarily better.

I agree with that that, but maturity is a transient state. As in an apple, maturity succeeds immaturity and precedes decay.

To regret change and think modern things are bad is not a sign of discernment. Someone who thinks modern things are bad has reached stage three.

 

[one-eyed_jim]

I agree with that that, but maturity is a transient state. As in an apple, maturity succeeds immaturity and precedes decay.

To regret change and think modern things are bad is not a sign of discernment. Someone who thinks modern things are bad has reached stage three.

Not necessarily...

It may be that modern things are (in some specific case) objectively bad. It may be that the advantages of modernity are achieved at a cost that we're unwilling to pay, or it may be that the potential advantages of a future modernity aren't obvious in a disadvantageous present.

It may be the case that while we recognize that modern tastes aren't objectively worse than our own mature ones, they aren't subjectively our own.

Let me jump back to this, which is about where I came in:

Whether it's clothes, music, bikes, whatever. If you don't like modern things, it's just a sign that you're old.

Let's take music as an example.

The composers and performers of many of my favourite recordings had been dead for decades - centuries in the case of some composers - before those works ever came to my attention. The musical history of our culture stretches back for hundreds of years. When I began to listen to music (rather than just hear it) and develop my own tastes, my explorations nearly always took me back into the past - often backwards and forwards in time, from point to point, from genre to genre, from one performer or style to another - but always within the great, deep body of the past, rather than to and fro on the surface of the present. Sometimes I come to the surface, but it's not where I like to spend very much of my time. My musical tastes develop all the time, but I'm not very much influenced by the onward rush of the modern. By your definition I was old at fifteen. By mine, I was just starting to show a little maturity.

I don't shun the new because it's new. I recognize that the present is a surface, and the past is a volume.

 

[dyna-ti]

Mods .Lock this for gawds sake :shock: :shock: .These 2 are getting in too deep.
Its gone from bikes to apples to music,and is shortly going to arrive at ridiculous.

 

[suburbanreuben]

Hang on; they may be on the verge of something profound... :roll: