Wheelbuilding questions tips and ponderations

[doctor-bond]

With tension the most important thing is to have even tension all round - it can be more or less (but not too little or too much obviously), but the actual value is less important than having even tension in all spokes. Large differences in tension are what cause problems.

Yes. This became clear to me - also that it is very possible to check this by listening to the ‘ping’.

One area that is still a little grey is how tight is tight. (With 2 identical wheels, you can copy tension to know tightness, but for a new spoke length you need judgement). In practice, it became fairly obvious by seeing when the spokes start to twist, and by the grab’n’squeeze of spokes to bed them in.

Lovely sport.

 

[bikeworkshop]

When I lace the spokes, I'll bend them (if necessary) so they point naturally at the spoke hole.
It's usually the ones on the outside of the flange.
Once the wheel is laced up, i use a soft faced hammer on the elbow to snug them down.

When the wheel is built and approaching tension, a certain amount of pushing the axle against the ground while working your hands around the rim helps bed everything in (as mentioned already), but don't pringle it.

The correct "ping" depends on the spoke style, gauge and length,
and if you use a tension gauge, the actual tension differs massively with different spoke styles.

PG at one end, aero blades at the other

Throw in some mavic tubular carbon or aluminium spokes with the UST cups, you need to look it up online

 

[doctor-bond]

The guy that took over from Sheldon also suggests using a hammer to persuade the outer spokes to do the right thing. I bottled this but found that hefty thumb pressure did the job, albeit with a bit of (will work on my true wheelbuilder callouses).

Twist is interesting: bladed spokes tell you that they are exactly aligned; I have a wheel set with these and have to say that they are superb (not built by me): many many miles and still true and tunefully tense. Trouble is, I can’t help but think that blades are too spiffy for mountain bikes and tourers.

 

[bikeworkshop]

When you like at a well used wheel, you'll see the outer spokes have dug into the alloy flange.

If you're ever reusing a hub with these signs of use, I'd strongly recommend using the same spoke pattern and position.

Tapping the outer spoke elbow on the flange with a hammer helps get this settling started, otherwise the slight movement will detesion the wheel and potentially take it out of true - I don't think thumb pressure will help, and my bending the spokes when lacing (so they point at the spokehole) gets the angle corrected.

(Some mid century large flange Road hubs have enough angle on the flange for this not to be necessary, but nearly all modern mtb hubs the flanges are parallel)

The reality is, if course, it doesn't matter if your own wheels need a little tension maintenance as you clock up the miles, whereas if they are going out the door on a customers bike, you want them as stable as possible.

 

[EightBallFlyer]

The guy that took over from Sheldon also suggests using a hammer to persuade the outer spokes to do the right thing. I bottled this but found that hefty thumb pressure did the job, albeit with a bit of (will work on my true wheelbuilder callouses).

Twist is interesting: bladed spokes tell you that they are exactly aligned; I have a wheel set with these and have to say that they are superb (not built by me): many many miles and still true and tunefully tense. Trouble is, I can’t help but think that blades are too spiffy for mountain bikes and tourers.

Good tips. I've never seen bladed spokes. I'm working with 30+ year old spokes from my Raleigh wheels, all galvanised, but they seem pretty tough. Others I've done are stainless, again, pretty tough.
Whatever my new Trek uses, I'm not sure, but it broke a rear spoke within 500 miles. Apparently, Trek have had a lot of issues with some of there wheels. ( This was the FX2/3 models).

 

[EightBallFlyer]

When you like at a well used wheel, you'll see the outer spokes have dug into the alloy flange.

If you're ever reusing a hub with these signs of use, I'd strongly recommend using the same spoke pattern and position.

Tapping the outer spoke elbow on the flange with a hammer helps get this settling started, otherwise the slight movement will detesion the wheel and potentially take it out of true - I don't think thumb pressure will help, and my bending the spokes when lacing (so they point at the spokehole) gets the angle corrected.

(Some mid century large flange Road hubs have enough angle on the flange for this not to be necessary, but nearly all modern mtb hubs the flanges are parallel)

The reality is, if course, it doesn't matter if your own wheels need a little tension maintenance as you clock up the miles, whereas if they are going out the door on a customers bike, you want them as stable as possible.

Yes, I noted these hub marks when I swapped rims about, and did exactly that. I kept an eye on the J bend area and persuaded a few into a little better shape.
Grabbing the hub at different parts of the build, and turning both ways while the rim is clamped also helped.
I also noted and practised the Park Tool tip, de-tension by going for a ride! The satisfying 'ping ping' as you ride the first 50 feet. On some of my wheels this didn't always happen though.

 

[bikeworkshop]

Additionally if you're reusing spokes, they ought to be in the same flange position due to shaping they've already acquired.

The"going for a ride" thing doesn't work on other people's wheels, but perfect on your own.
Thrash it a little then retune