Wheelbuilding questions tips and ponderations

[EightBallFlyer]

Some very interesting comments here.
The Roger Musson book/download sounds excellent. I shall order this.
Having built seven wheels for my own bikes, I haven't a clue if they're up to shop standards, but I've not had any issues so far.
Its certainly a challenge, but it's also incredibly satisfying to complete a wheel build.
I use a spare front fork and a rear section, cut from a junk frame, with the bottom bracket shell, or front steerer clamped in to my vice.
I also made a dishing tool from scrap too.
All good fun.

 

[JoeH]

Ah, so the one thing you don't need is the dishing tool, just switcheroo the wheel around in what ever is holding it.
The stand doesn't need to be centered as long as the two mounting points and one trueing arm stay the same you'll have a reference for dish!

What would be a better trade instead of a dishing tool would be a tensiometer, you'll be surprised how true one can get a wheel - basically perfect, yet tensions are not even close to 20% balanced

 

[EightBallFlyer]

I never thought of checking the dishing like that. I can see what you mean though.
Re: the tensioning, yes, I can confirm that tool is pretty good tool. I found one like a Park Tool product, on Temu for under £15, and it seems to give consistent readings.
Of course, I don't really know the individual spoke tension settings, or the formula to find them, as it does get quite involved.
I took the easy option by measuring tensions on my old wheel, and any dishing too, and replicated this on the rebuild. Like I mentioned, I'm just a have-a-go amateur, so I've still got a lot to learn I'm sure.
I'll add, it usually takes me a good 5 days or more, of on/off sessions in the shed to try and get it bang on.

 

[bikeworkshop]

What would be a better trade instead of a dishing tool would be a tensiometer, you'll be surprised how true one can get a wheel - basically perfect, yet tensions are not even close to 20% balanced

You can ping the spokes and easily hear 2% difference in pitch.
(Studies show below 0.5% is usual!)
It's amazing how sensitive the human body is - the best tool we've got by far.

 

[EightBallFlyer]

That's interesting too and something I've never tried actually. Maybe I'm tone death lol!
I will certainly put into practice some of the tips gleaned here on my next build. 🛠

 

[EightBallFlyer]

You can ping the spokes and easily hear 2% difference in pitch.
(Studies show below 0.5% is usual!)
It's amazing how sensitive the human body is - the best tool we've got by far.

Adding to this thread, this is what I found on Temu a while back. Seems to work well, at least as a guide.

 

[doctor-bond]

So, Yule mostly despatched time to jump back down the wheelbuild hole. Re dishing: I can’t get my head round the flip it round in the jig method as my feeler ‘gauges’ are zip ties and not indexed to the centre line. Anyway, I’ve got a dish tool so no worries.

Onto tension ….. well what a dark art. Musson advises to make sure they are ‘tight’ and that tight means anything from 98kgf to a lot more Kgf. And the best way to work out what’s tight is to compare it to another similar wheel, while also bearing in mind that all other wheels will be variable and imperfect ….

Meanwhile, Spokecalc has a tool which calculates perfect tension by inputting hub and rim data …. But it just defaults to the rim’s maximum permitted tension (which is a number impossible to find for old rims) or 200kgf ….

As to tension meter or tuning fork, given the above, all these do is give you a relative gauge of tension in comparison to other spokes. So, should all spokes have the same tension? Not necessarily. Should trailing and leading spokes have the same tension? Depends.

Actually, I quite like the fact that there is no right answer here - noodles, don’t noodles - so I’m going to tighten the spokes until they are tight, then match the pitch of the rest of them to the one with the nicest sound and see what happens.

 

[EightBallFlyer]

If it works for you, that's fine I say. I haven't a clue what a wheelbuilder would charge to do the job, so I just had a go myself. You do learn a lot and get better with each build though.
I'm only a daily commuter, with an occasional local day out or shopping trip, but it has suited my needs doing it this way.

 

[Fourbikes]

I judge the tension 2 ways. Firstly there should be a bit of movement when you squeeze 2 parallel spokes and secondly, by how hard it is to turn the nipples. If they're very hard to turn, they're probably over tightened. Too loose, they're probably under tightened. Of course 'too tight' and 'too loose' is subjective.

 

[EightBallFlyer]

I judge the tension 2 ways. Firstly there should be a bit of movement when you squeeze 2 parallel spokes and secondly, by how hard it is to turn the nipples. If they're very hard to turn, they're probably over tightened. Too loose, they're probably under tightened. Of course 'too tight' and 'too loose' is subjective.

Yes, it's certainly an art.
I did use the tension gauge on the old rim, and used those figures on the rebuild.
I probably broke every rule there is, but they're all holding up. Lots of patience needed. The first part, determing the spoke lengths and any dishing bias was the most challenging I thought. Five of my builds were changing hubs from a 26" rim to a 700c and vice versa, the hardest. Two of them were just straight, front rim replacements, due to worn rim brake surface area. The easiest.
I've one more to do next year, and I've paid the £9 for the Roger Musson download, which will give me some useful tips I think.