Wheel needs to be re-dished ... or is there another option?

[kjarrett]

Excited to be finishing my Axis Pro build ... just installed a proper 113x68 bottom bracket (NOS BB-UN51!) and sorted the front & rear mechs, but have run into a bit of snag. (And it appears this has something to do with / explains one of my prior posts.)

When my WTB Velociraptor tire (2.1") is fully inflated, the knobs (and they are glorious, LOVE these tires) hit the drive side chainstay.

I read online that I should flip the wheel in the frame to see if it is "off" in the other direction and thankfully, it is - indicating the frame is straight but the wheel likely needs dishing. Viewed from the rear, the wheel is *MOSTLY* centered on the seat tube, but does appear to be a bit shifted to the right.

This is a 36h Araya RM-20 that I have been riding all year on my Response Elite, and now I realize it was off on that frame, too. The little rubber vent spews actually wore the paint down on one of the seat stays. Now I know why.

Anyway, as I'm not keen to tweak spokes and dish the thing on my own, it's off to the shop to have the dish checked with a proper tool, and hopefully fixed.

Unless there's another option? The wheel is perfectly centered on the axle itself (same # of threads on each side) - but I toyed with adjusting it *JUST* a tiny bit to allow for enough clearance. Bad idea, that?

So. Close. To. Riding. This. BIKE!!!

Thanks, all.

-kj-

 

[Matty538]

Re:

I'd be tempted to slacken off the drive side spokes half a turn and tighten the non drive side a quarter turn if it needs a little more tweaking. I know you don't want to mess around but it's a ten minute job tops. What's the worst that could happen? You take it to the shop and they fix it anyway. As I see it you have nothing to lose.

 

[kjarrett]

Re: Re:

I'd be tempted to slacken off the drive side spokes half a turn and tighten the non drive side a quarter turn if it needs a little more tweaking. I know you don't want to mess around but it's a ten minute job tops. What's the worst that could happen? You take it to the shop and they fix it anyway. As I see it you have nothing to lose.

You have a point, but ... I'd need a spoke wrench, it's one tool I don't have (there aren't many). If I did attempt it and appeared successful, I doubt I'd have confidence in the wheel. (That's knowing I just built the entire bike up myself. Wheels are another beast entirely, because physics!)

Thanks for the reply!

 

[ishaw]

Re:

I'd suggest the same. Wheel building isn't the voodoo it is mate out to be, and you don't need to enter that game. If it were me (and I've got a spoke wrench and jig) I'd do as suggested. Use the frame as a jig (drop the tyre for this) and slacken the spokes off a half turn on the side that is closest to the frame, then tighten the other side 1/4 turn. The net effect will pull your rim away from the stay and hopefully centre the rim between the stays. It will only cost you a spoke wrench. You may need to go a bit more depending on how out the current dish is, but if you go gently and keep the adjustments you make even, you should end up where you need to be.

Worst outcome is you take it to a bike shop. Ideal outcome is you won't need that and you'll have a wheel that sits right in the frame.

Good luck whatever you choose, though you can't beat the satisfaction of doing it yourself.

 

[Peachy!]

I’d agree wholeheartedly with the above...I shake my head with dismay at the fact I waited till I was nearly 50 to do this, now I’d swap a hub, rim or set of spokes almost without looking... Ishaw is right, there’s no voodoo.... my son laced his first wheel at 11yrs, my daughter laced & balanced hers at 15...

BTW... for a tweak like yours, all you need is the spoke key, you can easily do it whilst fixed to the bike. What’s to lose? If you put a wobble in it that you just can’t get right, take it to the shop..

 

[marc two tone]

Re:

Was the wheel turned around between the two images? Just wondering what amount of gap you would enjoy once dishing achieved. Maybe tyre is too meaty at the end of the day.

 

[Woz]

"Wheel needs to be re-dished ... or is there another option?"

.....a narrow tyre that fits perhaps? You did ask :facepalm:

If you are not confident with a spoke key, I wouldn't just dive in there.

Take the wheel AND the frame to the shop to check alignment of the whole system and the individual parts.

I have a frame with a slightly out rear triangle so it is a case of "making two wrongs a right" with a
custom dished wheel. You can also check the wheel drop-outs for damage or dirt which also
causes a wheel not to sit properly and will throw it out of the center line.

Sometimes having another frame and another wheelset that you know for 100% sure are perfectly
aligned helps you attack the problem more methodically.

 

[kjarrett]

Re: Re:

I'd suggest the same. Wheel building isn't the voodoo it is mate out to be, and you don't need to enter that game. If it were me (and I've got a spoke wrench and jig) I'd do as suggested. Use the frame as a jig (drop the tyre for this) and slacken the spokes off a half turn on the side that is closest to the frame, then tighten the other side 1/4 turn. The net effect will pull your rim away from the stay and hopefully centre the rim between the stays. It will only cost you a spoke wrench. You may need to go a bit more depending on how out the current dish is, but if you go gently and keep the adjustments you make even, you should end up where you need to be.

Worst outcome is you take it to a bike shop. Ideal outcome is you won't need that and you'll have a wheel that sits right in the frame.

Good luck whatever you choose, though you can't beat the satisfaction of doing it yourself.

You make some great points, I don't know why I'm so intimidated by wheels, as I have no problem dismantling literally every other part of the bike, having just built it from scratch.

Gotta think this through some more...

Thanks for the reply!

-kj-

 

[kjarrett]

Re: Re:

Was the wheel turned around between the two images? Just wondering what amount of gap you would enjoy once dishing achieved. Maybe tyre is too meaty at the end of the day.

No it was not; I'd be happy with very little clearance ( a few MM?), and not even on both sides (I'm not -that- OCD, haha) and besides the wheel is almost perfectly behind the seat tube as it is. If I had a time machine, I'd warp back to 1992/93 and measure the gaps on both sides on a new one...

Funny you should mention a less meaty tyre, my first reaction (and since I'm always in a hell-hot-hurry) was to try and find the best one I could that had an aggressive tread similar to the Velociraptor's but in 1.95" - NOT an easy task - but I located/ordered this: https://shop.kendatire.com/Nevegal-p/21 ... 1&CartID=0

Expensive, yes, and I don't know why I didn't think to research more before ordering (see: hell-hot-hurry mindset at work). Well that and I'm just anxious to ride the damn thing, I've been building it for a couple weeks now (time delay mostly due to waiting on vintage parts from eBay.)

The Velociraptor knobs actually measure out to 2.2" at 55 PSI (they are rated as a 2.1" tyre), the Kenda's might work without even dealing with dishing the wheel.

Hmmm...

Thanks for the reply!

-kj-

 

[kjarrett]

"Wheel needs to be re-dished ... or is there another option?"

.....a narrow tyre that fits perhaps? You did ask :facepalm:

If you are not confident with a spoke key, I wouldn't just dive in there.

Take the wheel AND the frame to the shop to check alignment of the whole system and the individual parts.

I have a frame with a slightly out rear triangle so it is a case of "making two wrongs a right" with a
custom dished wheel. You can also check the wheel drop-outs for damage or dirt which also
causes a wheel not to sit properly and will throw it out of the center line.

Sometimes having another frame and another wheelset that you know for 100% sure are perfectly
aligned helps you attack the problem more methodically.

Right, yes - see my comment just posted about fitting a 1.95" tyre. I've read smaller is actually better in the rear, with larger (2.1" in my case) in the front for better cornering and to help prevent washouts. I love, love, LOVE the Velociraptors, though - owing to my years of experience with the Panaracer Smoke / Dart back in the day.

As for taking the whole bike into the shop ... my thoughts.

1) It's easier just to take the wheel in. Well not THAT much easier, I do have a bike rack, but...see next point.

2) With the setup I've got on this bike, meaning my LX brakes and Sunlite asymmetrical pads, the arms do not retract fully (they hit the frame) when the brake cable is removed. No big deal, but, the tyre must be fully deflated to remove and reinstall, then re-inflated once the wheel is mounted to check the clearance. I don't want to have the tech hassle with all that if I don't have to. Yes, I know, it's his or her job, right...would like also not to be charged a King's Ransom for a simple repair. Because we know how some bike shops are...

3) From what I've read, if the dish is right, it's right, irrespective of the frame, and thus if they can check the dish for me when I bring it in, confirm it's off, then bring it back into tolerance, BOOM, I'm done, and I can fight with the remounting etc. at home.

4) I'm weird and don't want other people working on my bike if I can avoid it haha

5) I'm really anxious to get this thing on the trail and think if I walk in with just the wheel I have a better chance of getting it done sooner.

Any of that make sense? Probably not, because I'm a dolt. haha

Thanks for the reply,

-kj-