What is 'retro'

[Anthony]

I agree. The poster is new to the site and it seems a perfectly natural question to ask. And I guess it's nicely typical of the liberal-minded way in which the site is run that there isn't any 'official' definition of retro laid down for newcomers to refer to.

It's a pity that some people find the discussion boring, but I must say I wish they wouldn't say so. To the person asking the question, it's the first time they've ever asked it. I know they could do a search, but asking a question is a much friendlier thing to do than hammering away at the search engine and newcomers should be welcomed.

I've lost count of the number of times I've answered questions about how to put a date or a size to a Kona, which is really quite simple, but only if you happen to know. I expect some people find that boring as well, but just see if I care. :cry: :cry:

 

[reanimation]

Yeah my answer, came from 4 years of answering this or giving my opinion on sites like Retro-rides car forum or retro car club forum which has difering opinions, but similar response to here, or indeed what makes a Ford Old Skool. :? :roll:

I'm at the point where I'm happy with the answer I gave. If something once a popular sight goes out of sight day to day, and becomes almost unseen altogether, when you see one again it looks old, retro. some are older than others.

Its a fair question, i guess a definitive aim of the site would be helpful but not nessesary, we are all here as we all like old bikes so it doesnt matter if the content is 98% retro, we don't want to fall down our own pigeon hole.

 

[cherrybomb]

Just to clarify: My comment was tongue in cheek and not meant as a real gripe.
For what it's worth my view is that retro can be brand spankin' new. It's just harking back to an earlier period, style or fashion. I think On Ones, the Genesis bikes and Oranges new P7s and Prestige are retro.
Sometimes I think the work is miss used...people mean 'classic' or 'vintage' but say retro.

But we'll be arguing about this till the end of the world. Retro means what you want it to mean, no ones right and, equally, no ones wrong.

I think ededwards summed it up nicely:

"Retro is as retro does"

But then........maybe life's a box of chocolates and retro bikes are the strawberry creams? :?

 

[legrandefromage]

Bikes have been around in some form or other for some 150 years or so - the specific term 'mountain bike' cropped up around 2 decades ago as this new type of cycle appeared with road and BMX derived componentry.

This gave us small manufacturers making some fantastic components/ designs/ bikes (regardless of longevity, fragility etc).

Its these fledgling designs or bikes or bits that had a short or limited production life that have the 'retro' magic that we all seem to lust after - conversely - massed produced entry level models that our paper rounds bought have that same 'magic' as, although there were 1000's sold, most would have been ridden to destruction.

So, perhaps 'what is retro?' could be summed up as:

Rarity
Originality
Availability

Rarity: - what was the production run? What was their intended lifespan?
Originality: - exactly how original, ie: does it have those big fat Shimano brake cables? And so on.
Avaialbility: Who's hoarding what? Pauls components stuffed in display cases, garage queens, stuff left at the back of long established bike shops etc.

Before I lose the plot and ramble - you must get what I mean - the same applies to antiques, classic cars, Hifi etc.

You pick something up that has just that little something extra that makes you want to keep it, rebuild, polish it, just becuase...becuase - you ask yourself - and you're not entirely sure why....

 

[doctor-bond]

Think this topic is well worth an outing every know and again, especially as the modern content seems to have taken quite a rise recently.

Unlike pregnancy, retro is a sliding scale: more like alchohol content. You can be a little bit - gnats piss retro, or very - 100 proof retro.

Also like booze, there is a quality scale to consider: think QC sherry to single malt.

For me the scale goes something like this [and remember its a scale not a pigeonhole]:

Typically 1980s: Fillet brazed or lugged steel frames, a sniff of ti if you are lucky, straight top tubes; no suspension; twin boom & golf club riser stems; roller cam, canti or u brakes; motorbike brake levers; ratchet and index thumbies; beartraps and straps; hite rites & turbo saddles; silky silver aluminium chainsets; groupsets.

Strong stuff indeed. But depending on how it is combined, you could be in Congnac/Single malt, or Spanish brandy/supermarket vodka territory.



Typically early to mid 1990s: Tigged steel or alu frames, more ti, sloping top tubes; front suspension; long reach zero rise stems; v brakes or minimalist cantis; two finger levers; rapid fire and grip shift; SPDS; Flites; colour annodised chainsets; pick and mix componentry:

Sherry territory. Some excellent Jerez Finos out there, and champagne if you are careful but watch out for the buckfast tonic wine.




Typically mid late 90's on. Carbon, monster welds and gusseted frames; full sus; chubby aheadstems; disks; any kind of levers; any kind of shifters; flat pedals; fiziks; hollowtech; lots of decals:

Some refreshing largers to be had here, but lots of alcopops.


Now there is also the thorny question of those pashleys, shwinns etc that are new retro: Cider with Ice; WKDs; Flavoured vodka if you are lucky ....

 

[cherrybomb]

But none of that is retro. Its vintage, or classic or just plain old, but not retro.

Retro has nothing to do with how old something is, it's about a style or feel or character that apes a previous period.

Something new can be 100% retro.

 

[daj]

"Retro has nothing to do with how old something is, it's about a style or feel or character that apes a previous period"

Yes!! Spot on!! How the hell can you delare a year and say anything after that isnt retro ... Tosh !!

 

[Russell]

I think that as we've now got modern BOTM competitions, the question "what is retro" is a perfectly valid one (again). For a newb to the site, there is kind of a mixed message here with many bikes on the site being less than 10 yrs old which I certainly don't term 'retro'.

It seems that as more people want to become a part of our loving family, the definition of retro becomes increasingy blurred in order to accomodate them, and where initially cantilevers and rigid bikes were the norm, retro now ecompasses 'feel' or 'character'.

 

[legrandefromage]

'Modern retro' is a bit annoying - sat in a new Fiat 500 - bloody awful, yet a new Mustang works...

I dunno.

 

[doctor-bond]

Something new can be 100% retro

True. But it simply can't be retro just by being new. A mock 60's car may be mock but it has to at least be a bit like a 60's car.

So to say:

Retro has nothing to do with how old something is

is at best incomplete. The concept of Retro must refer to something that is vintage or classic or old.


Here's a question: is it possible that vintage classic and old things cannot be retro? e.g. 60's cars are not retro but mock 60's cars are ....

If so, then we better declare a year and say that anything before that isn't retro. Such an idea is not as mad as it sounds in terms of all bikes which, as the man said, have been going for 150 years or so.

But if it is the case for mountain bikes, then we'd be into strange territory indeed.