truing / lacing a bike wheel advice

[August Bicycles]

Why not calibrate your own tools by building a tensionmeter calibration jig and using precision ground measures to check DTI's, micrometers and verniers?. Save yourself time and money and the need to double up on tools you send out for cal.
Insurance shouldn't be hanging on you having to use a third party service as if you do it right an engineer paid for by an insurance company will find your tooling to be well within acceptable limits, for wheelbuilding. This isn't nano tech we are dealing with here.

Also; why on earth are you playing email tennis?

If somebody asks you to build 12 spoke wheels and in the next email you find out they are 20 stone and 'send it' off piste then you just say no and tell them what you think they should have. If they dont accept you have done you a favour and you move on to the next person.
Same applies to people who want to argue about heads in/out, crosses and d/s or nds radial. You should know what works and be confident telling someone what you think. If they dont accept then move on.
It is always worth keeping an open mind to what someone says, as they might actually be right, but if you have been doing this for a long time you know what works.

Nothing about building a bicycle wheel should take 10-20 emails/phonecalls. That is absolute madness and you have just told everyone that a client might have to pay for all the time you spend faffing about with other clients.
I would take a guess, based on my experience, that a good portion of the people who want to play text tennis don't end up buying any product. They are timewasters born to suck the last drop of desire out of the self employed and as soon as they are identified contact should cease.

I'm a full-time self-employed custom framebuilder that started out as a wheelbuilder. I help where I can, am known to be a good source of support and advice and do whatever I can in-house, including tool calibration, maintenance etc so I know how much that equates to in terms of time and cost. And anyone charging money for a service, in any respect, should have the relevant insurance. That's just basic common sense and consumer protection.

I also agree. It should not take 20 emails to sort anything. If you could put the word out, that would save me and my wife a lot of admin! When my wife has tried to cull the lengthy and unnecessary conversations, she has been accused of being curt or even rude (she never is). These examples are generally newer cyclists who don't know what they need, what is viable and the new 'standards' on offer, in conjunction with an aesthetic they like or something they read about. We try to be patient and informative and that's what tends to turn a one-time customer into a repeat buyer or even a friend.

I think I'll bow out of this conversation as I'm being misconstrued, most likely unintentionally and I don't want to get into a game of forum tennis! But again, I applaud everyone doing their own wheels. It is NOT a dark art, it's just a skill that can be learnt, like almost anything.

 

[Tootyred]

It is a skill that can be learnt, but....and its quite a big but, as with most skills practice and understanding makes perfect....much like @August Bicycles above, i too spent part of my shop time years ago building wheel and often "rescuing" other people's attempts at building and especially truing them!

Whilst i very much agree that everybody should have a go and learn, a book built set of wheels will be fine till its not....then like diy, your realise why you employ a professional!

I would humbly suggest you get an old pair, take them to bits, build them and practice before launching into new, costly parts.

I would alsp suggest Roger Mussons book to download, its fantastic and you can build a jig from his plans for a couple of quid. It not only goes through the "how" but the " why" which is kinda more important, as then you will actually understand what your trying to achieve, rather than a step a, step b, step c blind following build.

But do have a go.

 

[synchronicity]

You employ a professional because you:
a) literally can't do it yourself (be that because you are too afraid, don't have the skills, know your limits, or whatever)
b) have the money (and don't prefer to spend it on something else, you're fine paying out labour costs)
c) want to save time / can't be stuffed / prefer to do something else with your time instead

If you have the time and are reasonably adept and are ready to have a go, then yes you can save money by doing it yourself.
Especially as the original poster said, "great to know i might be able to do this whole build myself".

Those kind of people need to be reassured that everything will be okay. Not scared into forking out £150 for someone else to do it for them.

The only kind of person I don't advise to DIY their own wheels are overly eager 10-15 year olds who think they can do it with a 6" shifting spanner instead of a spoke key.

The only difference I see is that a pro wheel builder will be able to do it faster. That's about it.

Besides, after you've done it once, realise how long it takes, you may just be that more willing to pay someone else for his or her time next time around.

If I was loaded with cash, no I probably wouldn't want to build my own wheels as much. I'd gladly pay someone else because quite frankly it's a bit of a tedious job.

Building your own frames, that's another story, because welding/brazing takes way more practice.

 

[Tootyred]

Completely agee as i said above that everybody should have a go.....

But, most tasks require small amounts of actual skill.....wheel building, brick laying, playing the piano.....but its the practice that makes the difference between a mess an a good job.

Problem with wheelbuilding is is right till its wrong......10 miles into a ride, when all your spokes start to loosen...(yes, I've seen it more than once) is not the time i would humbly suggest to realise you didn't get the tension quite right.

I also agree that building new wheels is fairly easy, its all straight, new parts etc.....but then brick laying is just a string line and some bricks and mortar....and the piano is just pressing some keys and reading the music.

For years i put up with people acting shocked at the cost of custom parts for cars etc..."£1000 for an exhaust.....its just some pipe ".....normally we just offered to sell them the blank lengths and say...." off you go then"!

But, do have a go at wheel building, but please dont knock and belittle the professionals.....unless you happy to put your house on the line in a court case next time those carbon 8 spoke wheels fail killing somebody.

 

[novocaine]

As I've already said, the master knows when to stop, the apprentice does not.

Knowing when is the right time to stop and that goes for both sides of right (loose or tight in this case) is knowledge not skill, modern tooling can help with that to an extent (tensiometer) but learning that the hard way can too (rarely is it a catastrophic, normally it's a nice big wobble but the wheel doesn't completely explode).

I've taught a few people to lace and true wheels over the years and for most part everybody has succeeded. as with Tooty one of them did had some spokes slack off on the second ride, it wasn't because he hadn't tightened them correctly it was because he hadn't relieved and unwound them as he was rushing.

Lesson learned he didn't do it again. yes it's a harsh lesson, but he knew how to get it back to close enough to ok to ride it home, which is surely the bonus of building your own wheels, you learn how to fix it. I've also seen wheels built by "professionals" (note, inverted commas, these people only claimed to be, I wouldn't have trusted them with a soft screwdriver) who charged the earth do the same as above, the difference was the guy riding it didn't have the knowledge to fix it, he was lucky, his riding buddies (me and 2 people I'd taught to wheel build as it happens) did.

I'm not belittling the pros, the good ones do things in a time frame that most can only dream off, had the tooling to get it right first time, every time and the earned knowledge from experience to know when something isn't right and when to stop. If you have the beans to pay one, please do (it kept me in cheese and beer when I worked in the bike shop), if you don't have the beans, crack on with the learning.

If you aren't completely confident, find a real bike shop with a good wheel builder and ask if they can give your build a once over for you. Don't insult them though, ask how much they would want for it (do it before you build a wheel).

 

[synchronicity]

Uh, no one is 'belittling' the professionals here.
You don't have to justify anything to anybody. Right?

Having said that, I don't think you'll necessarily end up with a vastly 'superior' wheelset simply by taking your hubs/spokes/rims to a pro, no.

(I think) pro wheel building (for me) is mostly about speed.


Also, I think you'll find that it takes far longer to train your fingers to play the piano than to turn a spoke key.
One is muscle memory, the other is not.

And look, brickwalling is something completely different again (even with a string guide).
There is cement consistency, and a whole host of other factors to consider.

The spokes on the other hand can only go in the spoke holes!

It's not the "skill" so much as the labour.
You're faster at it, no question about it.
But don't make it out to be something it's not.
It's certainly not impossible. Far from it.

Also, as I have hinted at before – please, stop catastrophising.
Do you realise that you @Tootyred are trying to instill a genuine fear into people of building their own wheels (lest they cause some kind of a hideous unforeseen accident)? Rubbish. Stop it.

You build your own wheels, you take your chances.
I'll gladly take that chance/risk.


It seems to me it's more about having potential clients muscle in on "your territory". Or another potential sale lost.
Is that what you are worried about?
Yet no one is telling people here to build wheelsets for other people and for them to charge for that privilege.

IMHO, you're better off encouraging people to build their own wheels, see how long it takes them.
Probably the better half of a weekend by the time you add it all up.
Then on the 3rd go/wheelset, they'll probably be over it, have more appreciation for it and come and pay you to do it.

Would I want to become a wheelbuilder? Err, no.

People come to cycling forums for free advice, in this case, whether/how to lace a wheel.
Professional wheelbuilders don't have some kind of 'monopoly' on wheelbuilding information.
For gawd's sake. We're going to tell people "you can do it!".

 

[DrmZ]

I think there is a big difference between building modern wheels with carbon rims / thin or aero spokes and "classic" wheels with 32 or 36 spokes.
Classic may be heavier but its more forgiving and easier to learn if you go with traditional 3-cross-lacing.
I would not trust my skills to build a modern light wheel intended for hardcore use.
In that case I would go to my trusted mechanic.
But for our hobby to learn how to build a classic wheel is great skill to have.
It just opens up more options to customize your builds.
And I bet most collectors dont ride their bikes that hard anymore
Also I dont think many professional whellbuilers want to build with used components from the 80s/90s?

 

[drexal77]

I started building my own wheels two years ago after watching Ali C's tutorial.
It's not that hard if you follow his steps and take your time.
And maybe start with not to thin spokes as they are easier to handle.
Here is the video.

If it goes bad just start over

Oh, and I'm using an old cheap Minaura stand that was gifted to me by my mechanic. Would be nice to have a better one but it works well enough.

Thanks for advice and video @DrmZ will watch it this week and thanks for brand of stand your using

 

[drexal77]

Building wheels is a skill but it isn't at all hard for anyone who can use some basic hand tools and be methodical. I think wheel building has been elevated by people who want to protect their income and/or by people who want to appear amazing. That is how it has attained the black art status, in some circles, that can only be performed by the blessed.

My advice is to not skimp on the spoke keys you buy, as is the case with tools regardless of what you are doing( dont get ripped off though!), and buy quality spokes and nipples.
A cheap wheel jig will be good enough as will truing in a frame/fork with a decent 6 inch rule to hand unless you plan to start a business. A spoke tension meter can be a good idea at the beginning but never forget to learn what the tension feels like, with your fingers. The day will come when you have to put some spokes in a wheel and you wont have the meter.

Thanks for replying @Frankenorange great advice, definitely don't want to start a business, just would love learn every part of bike building, thanks again, all tips noted

 

[drexal77]

I've built a few myself after having the need and seeing the cost of a full build. I bought a cheap jig which while not the best, does the job.

I've been fairly successful, if I'm not sure about the end result, it's a trip to the lbs for a true, which doesn't cost a lot. My lbs said once that they'd take a loosely laced wheel and it would still qualify as a true rather than a build job.

Give it a go, it's very satisfying once you've done it.

Online guides have been super helpful to get the leading spoke in the right place.

Thanks @ishaw