The retro effect on the bike scene

[lumos2000]

Maybe its about being selective with hindsight. You now know what actually was good and what was bollocks. And now you can afford it as well.

 

[Andy R]

Dammit Neil do you have to quote each individual sentence .
They're all coming from the same place , just quote the lot :lol

It's just to better demonstrate how easily he can dismiss all of my opinions as being ill-informed crap I suppose.

Which they are, of course. What I can't figure out is how Neill seems to be able to deduce this on the strength of a couple of forum postings, whereas it's taken most people that I know years to arrive at the same conclusion.

I need to work harder at my bullshitting skills around here, obviously.

 

[Neil]

Dammit Neil do you have to quote each individual sentence .
They're all coming from the same place , just quote the lot :lol

It's just to better demonstrate how easily he can dismiss all of my opinions as being ill-informed crap I suppose.

Which they are, of course. What I can't figure out is how Neill seems to be able to deduce this on the strength of a couple of forum postings, whereas it's taken most people that I know years to arrive at the same conclusion.

I'm just that good.

And for what it's worth, I don't think all of your opinions are ill-informed crap ;-)

Objectively, you probably have a strong point. But the fact remains, this is Retrobike - we're not being objective, we're being decidely selective and subjective. So it doesn't really make the greatest of sense to extol the virtue of modern bikes at a place that celebrates bikes, designs and parts from yesteryear.

But you know this already... and do it anyway... your choice, but there's really no need to sound so irked when it's pointed out.

And I still maintain, across the piece, Vs are probably the most optimal braking system for MTBs. None of that says that disks are irrelevant - far from it - merely that taking into consideration all factors, Vs still have a valid place.

 

[Neil]

Dammit Neil do you have to quote each individual sentence

I do, so I can fulfill the sole purpose of irritating you ;-)

 

[Neil G]

I'm afraid I'm with Andy R on this one

I really do think discs are one of the best advances in MTB, I don't quite get why people find them so troublesome to set up etc.

 

[SF Klein]

deleted

 

[Andy R]

Objectively, you probably have a strong point. But the fact remains, this is Retrobike - we're not being objective, we're being decidely selective and subjective. So it doesn't really make the greatest of sense to extol the virtue of modern bikes at a place that celebrates bikes, designs and parts from yesteryear.

But you know this already... and do it anyway... your choice, but there's really no need to sound so irked when it's pointed out.

Neil- the whole subject of disc brakes (in this thread) came up because I had the temerity to question why anyone would build up a modern bike but still use rim brakes. I didn't bring up the whole modern bike bit.
Nowhere did I suggest that every one in the Retrobike community starts cutting off their canti mounts and getting the oxy-acetylene gear out in order to braze on caliper mounts.

Be as subjective and selective as you like about what braking system you use - it's called freedom of choice I believe.
I didn't realise that you were a spokesman for all of Retrobike (with all this use of the word "we") nor did I know that you were the final arbiter of what I can or cannot discuss on this forum.

 

[Neil]

Objectively, you probably have a strong point. But the fact remains, this is Retrobike - we're not being objective, we're being decidely selective and subjective. So it doesn't really make the greatest of sense to extol the virtue of modern bikes at a place that celebrates bikes, designs and parts from yesteryear.

But you know this already... and do it anyway... your choice, but there's really no need to sound so irked when it's pointed out.

Neil- the whole subject of disc brakes (in this thread) came up because I had the temerity to question why anyone would build up a modern bike but still use rim brakes.

And your response has been because I had the temerity to question the objectiveness of using disks, as if they comprehensively triumphed everything before them.

And since the door was opened with talk of the auto industry - then lets dive into that. The auto industry doesn't solely use disks on cars. Many modern cars still leave, brand new, from dealers, with drum brakes (not normally all round, I'll grant you).

Why would that be - I mean after all, there are some unquestionables - disks are more powerful - why wouldn't they be used on every single car? Can't purely be costs, because surely it can't be more expensive to produce disks and calipers (given how prevalent they are) over drums and shoes. Even big(ger) cars still frequently have a drum brake inside the rear disks.

Why would that be?

Can't purely be costs.

Car makers have often struggled using handbrakes on disks, and on cars, the brake bias means that the rears don't need to contribute the same degree of power as the fronts.

So a combination of not needing to provide as much braking power, and it being very much easier to provide a reliable, trustworthy hand / parking brake on a rear drum, means that many cars that either don't need particularly powerful rear brakes, or the size of disk would make an internal drum not particularly cost effective / tricky to implement, has meant that drums still have a valid place in the car industry.

Now that might not be for ever, but it's still current.

Swinging back to mountain biking, sure for many, the power of the brakes is of truly high importance. People who cycle in quite heavy conditions, steep downhills, inclement weather, the ability to still be capable if a wheel buckle occurs - I recognise all those things.

But that doesn't encompass all of mountain-biking. Other factors are at play - ease of serviciblity, weight, simplicity. If I was taking a bike for an expedition to the back of beyond, which is more likely I'll be able to find parts for in some shack of a bike-shop?

I didn't bring up the whole modern bike bit.
Nowhere did I suggest that every one in the Retrobike community starts cutting off their canti mounts and getting the oxy-acetylene gear out in order to braze on caliper mounts.

Nor did I accuse you of that, so where's that coming from?

I didn't realise that you were a spokesman for all of Retrobike (with all this use of the word "we") nor did I know that you were the final arbiter of what I can or cannot discuss on this forum.

Neither did I.

Just as free as you should be to voice your opinion, so should I - so wind your neck in, and valet park your high-horse, slick.

And the "we" isn't presuming group support, or speaking for Retrobike - merely describing why people are drawn here, not attempting to, or suggesting I'm speaking for them - there's a difference between describing the ethos of the place, to somebody wrongly infering that I'm trying to assert I'm speaking on behalf of some silent majority.

I prefer to think that's simply something not garnered from a text medium, rather than something insidious, mate.

 

[Neil]

I'm afraid I'm with Andy R on this one

I really do think discs are one of the best advances in MTB, I don't quite get why people find them so troublesome to set up etc.

People have always found brakes troublesome to setup.

One of the reasons for Vs after cantis, was because it is more tricky to setup a canti than a V.

 

[hamster]

Also a lot of it was the daft design of canti pads - the older wider type were much easier and there is no reason why the V-brake pad arrangement couldn't be designed into a canti instead of the fiddly posts.