Sun frame identification - now with pics.

[Wheelnut]

I have an old Sun frameset and would like to know the age and possibly the model, if anyone can help.

The frame number is on the left side rear dropout and is BTV4807. The B is a smaller size than the TV.

It looks 1950s or maybe 1960s, it bears a head badge with Sun Birmingham, and the lugs appear to be Crespera style. The original paint was Duck egg blue/green with chrome head lugs and green flam paint on the head tube. Has one braze-on for a Cyclo gear lever, brake cable braze-ons, and pump pegs on the top tube. Also, the forks have a lamp bracket boss, but no frame number on the steerer so they may not be original.

Will try to post a couple of pics if I find the time.

The frame is slightly heavier than 531 and clearly nothing special, but it would be nice to know what it is, or how old.

 

[bagpuss]

Re:

Copy of Terrys list of numbers for Sun numbers.
sun_years by rebalrid, on Flickr

Spokesman will be along soon to tell you more .

 

[Wheelnut]

Re: Sun frame numbers.

That list is really useful. Thanks.

I think the centre letter is the one I need for the date, which makes it 1952/3.

The lugs are actually Nervex Legere mod48, a type commonly used by lightweight makers for low and mid-priced models.

 

[Spokesmann]

Re: Sun frame numbers.

Any chance of some pictures?

 

[Wheelnut]

Re:

Here are some pictures.

The lug design I would associate with the early 60s, but may well have been in use well before that. Having stripped off the paint, it looks to be a fairly well built frame, heavier tubes than double butted but certainly not gas pipe.

I got this as a job lot with a couple of other frames and it doesn't really fit with my collection, and it's a bit small for me, so this will probably appear in the for sale section before long.

Any suggestions as to model and year?

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi,
I have had a Manxman with a similar number and lugs, and was dated by the Sun expert, and given the info I have received this frame in my opinion is a 1960/61 Sun to Carlton transitional one. While Sun were being transformed into a Carlton brand, things were in disarray but production had to continue, and this is one of the results. Terry

 

[Spokesmann]

Certainly looks a later frame, as has been said into the 60s. What does the headbadge say? Worksop or Birmingham?

 

[Wheelnut]

Early '60s would seem to fit, and Carlton certainly used similar Nervex lugs in that era. Head badge is Sun Birmingham.

I did a bit of searching for similar Sun frames on the internet and came across one with the same head lugs and bearing the name Crespera on the top tube, although the owner somehow seemed to imagine (wrongly, I think) that it was a mid '50s Supalite.

Did Sun make a Crespera model?

 

[Spokesmann]

Those are not Crespera lugs, they came a bit later, c1967. Sun did make a Cresta model. Birmingham would indicted that this as Old tel says came in a period when production was being moved to Worksop, this around 1962. The lugs are very similar to those used on the Carlton Corsa Strada.

 

[Wheelnut]

Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated. An interim early 60s model does seem very plausible.

You would have thought it would bid easy to research a fairly major marque like Sun, and yet there is very little info available. Even the V-CC library only has a 1958 and 1967 catalogue, but nothing in between. And the pictures and description in those are not detailed enough to be any use.

Mention is made of EUUT tubing. I assume that's a TI tubeset?

Does the frame number give any clues as to the year? I'm assuming the V in the BVT prefix is a red herring, and does not denote 1952/3.