Strange problem with Hope Ti BB

[Konsta]

Hello all.

Yesterday I tried to install my Hope Ti square taper bottom bracket with a 103mm spindle. Things didn't go as planned. The cups did not seem to go in far enough into the frame and when examining what could be the problem I noticed that the titanium spindle was not centered between the bearings!

As the spindle should have a raised center (see pic below) I assume that for the bb to work properly the aluminum center sleeve should be of the same exact width as the spindle's raised center. The only explanation I can think of for my bb problems is that for some strange reason the previous owner has mated a 68mm spindle with a center sleeve that would be of the correct width for a 73mm spindle.

So. Am I correct? Does anybody know if Hope titanium bottom brackets were made in two sizes? I mean for 68mm and 73mm shells?
Also, if someone has a working 68mm version at hand, could you please measure the exact width of the center sleeve?

For those who don't what the darn thing looks like here's a few pics. Mind you neither of these is my bb.

 

[Carge]

Re:

I may be wrong, but I don't think you have to use the centre sleeve.
I'm pretty sure, but I think one or two of mine are fitted without the centre sleeve.

 

[syncrosfan]

Re: Hope Ti BB center sleeve width problem

It's quite possible that your center sleeve is not original to your BB. You can always cut it down.

 

[boxxer]

Re: Hope Ti BB center sleeve width problem

Hope did a lot of "pointless" sleeves, there's one on the inside of my big un 20mm conversion kit, I assume they put it here to stop water entering the shell but as it doesn't sit tight it's just extra weight...

 

[ishaw]

Re: Hope Ti BB center sleeve width problem

Slightly off bb topic but I have a hope pro 2 front hub without a sleeve. Does the lack of one matter?

 

[mechanical_vandal]

Re: Hope Ti BB center sleeve width problem

Slightly off bb topic but I have a hope pro 2 front hub without a sleeve. Does the lack of one matter?

If the hub is the same setup as the bb then - so far as I can see - it shouldn't.

The step/shoulder/sleeve(?) on the axle should be all that's needed to correctly load and support the bearings and the larger diameter tube is just there as Boxxer suggests to stop slow the ingress of water.

 

[Konsta]

Re: Hope Ti BB center sleeve width problem

Thanks for the answers!

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. In my opinion, in a Hope bb the center sleeve is very important.

Take for example a Shimano bottom bracket. They have a flange on the drive side cup. This flange is tightened against the frame. Then the other cup (flangeless) is tightened against the bb cassette steel shell. The bearings preload stays the same. This is how a Shimano bb is fixed into place.

A Hope bb is different. Both cups are flangeless and short. They are designed so that when tightened, they press inward on the outer section of the bearing. For the bb to stay put in the frame, the cups need to be very tight. The bearings by themself (without the support of the center sleeve) cannot take this much sideways torque. Either the bearings will break or their lifespan will be greatly shortened and/or the bb will not stay in place inside the frame.

Those bottom brackets that don't have a center sleeve (for example Syncros Hardcore that I also own) have longer cups that are held in place by lock rings. The lock rings are tightened against the frame. In these bottom brackets the cups are NOT tightened hard against the bearings.

So. In my opinion the sleeve is essential. If someone has a Hope ti bb and could measure the correct sleeve width I'd very much appreciate it!

 

[rc200]

Re:

Totally agree with Konsta, without the sleeve you will wreck the bearings. My spare sleeve measures 48.00mm.
Bearing spacing / sleeve width is the same on my 68mm & 73mm hope bb's, the extra width for the 73mm version is 2.5mm additional width in each of the cups.

 

[Konsta]

Re: Help needed with Hope Ti BB center sleeve width

Thank you very much rc200!

I measured mine and the sleeve is indeed 48mm (add bearings and the whole package is 62mm).
Okay. Everything should be good but the the spindle is not centered.

Now I'm really puzzled. Here's a few pics:

Here is the "drive side". The spindle comes out by about 21.8mm measured from the bearing outside surface. With the cup (not visible in the pic) fully pressed against the bearing, about 17.7mm of spindle will be exposed. So that's about right I think.

This is the "non drive side". Less spindle here, only about 19mm. With the cup pressed against the bearing, there will be about 14.9mm of exposed spindle on this side.

The bb shell combined (cups tight with bearings and center sleeve) is something like 70mm wide! That's not good. I think it should be more in the 68mm range.

Can't understand anything anymore.

 

[rc200]

Re:

I don't have a bb out of a bike to look at it, but if the sleeve is 48mm, the raised section of the axle should be 48mm bearings are 7mm each which adds up to the 62mm total width you have so it should be ok. Are you fitting the bb assembled as per the picture of the red one? This is how they came from Hope when new.If you don't fit them like that the sleeve may not sit straight between the bearings and tilt and jam up against the end of the cups which will prevent the cups screwing fully into the frame.