Steel frame making.

[August Bicycles]

Hurlow and Cooper are quoted as being able to build 10-15 frames per week, I can't find the article or I'd have linked to it. Also begs the question. Why is there a two year waiting list for some. I'd be surprised if there were a 1000 customers waiting. So two frames a week at £4000 = £208,000 turnover. Not too shabby in my opinion. Before I'm flamed I obviously love steel frames

Hurlow and Cooper are quoted as being able to build 10-15 frames per week, I can't find the article or I'd have linked to it. Also beg the question. Why is there a two year waiting list for some. I'd be surprised if there were a 1000 customers waiting. So two frames a week at £4000 = £208,000 turnover. Not too shabby in my opinion. Before I'm flamed I obviously love steel frames

Jesus! If people are charging £4K for a frame, then you could get two from me for that price! I’m clearly not adding enough hipster tax! Hahaha

I think frames these days take longer to build than back then, internal cable routing, disc mounts, shaped and curved tubing, larger tyre sizes etc all take longer to deal with.

Straight seatstays with a cast top eye onto a tabbed dropout is way easier to assemble than a tapered a bend seat stay which is going onto a flanged dropout and fastback style at the seat tube. It’s all extra time, tooling, consumables that have to be paid for.

Clearly as a steel framebullder I’m biased, but what’s the cost of materials and time to lay up a carbon frame into a mould and bake it compared to an average 7-10 days to build a steel frame? Some of these carbon frames are £6k+ and they are being churned out pretty quickly and none of them are bespoke to the customer. When you think of that in comparison to a one-off steel frame tailored to your exact specifications, the carbon bike is the overpriced one.

 

[bikeworkshop]

I think part of the problem is that steel is now seen as either very basic, or very high end exclusive, so there's nothing in the middle. I can't see anyone making something "middle range", the equivalent of the 531 or even 653 frame and fork that most of us rode in the 90's.

Quality steel is found these days in the gravel/ adventure market (what used to be touring -and suits forestry tracks)
As riders want more travel and bigger tyres, and drive to trail centres with the mtb on the back of the car, the benefits of steel have fallen away. A few mill compliance on a frame with 2.8" tyres and 140mm travel up front just adds cost and weight. ( on a full sus it makes almost no sense at all)
Especially when you cane it for an hour then drive home.
the current mtb market isn't aimed at riders putting hours in the saddle on a simple rigid/short travel bike miles from anywhere.
And if you break your modern frame, it could be cheaper to get a new one than repair and repaint.

 

[novocaine]

Quality steel is found these days in the gravel/ adventure market (what used to be touring -and suits forestry tracks)
As riders want more travel and bigger tyres, and drive to trail centres with the mtb on the back of the car, the benefits of steel have fallen away. A few mill compliance on a frame with 2.8" tyres and 140mm travel up front just adds cost and weight. ( on a full sus it makes almost no sense at all)
Especially when you cane it for an hour then drive home.
the current mtb market isn't aimed at riders putting hours in the saddle on a simple rigid/short travel bike miles from anywhere.
And if you break your modern frame, it could be cheaper to get a new one than repair and repaint.

disagree, but that's just me opinion as a non trail center rider (I know, crazy, we still exist, like dinosaurs). you are right though, the swing towards manicured trails has changed the demographic slightly.

 

[jim haseltine]

I recently found out that a frame builder who I'd never heard of has a workshop on the outskirts of the town in which my parents live. Other than having taken a quick look at the website I can't really comment on the product other than to say that he/she/they come across more than a bit artisanal and you'll be lucky to get a frame & forks for less than £3k plus paint* - and then only as part of a full bike build. Oh, and my biggest bug-bear of modern life - he/she/they don't have landline phone number listed.
*Not counting the cost of the bike fit b*ll*cks you have to go through before they'll agree to build you a bike.

 

[Woz]

Good posts @paton - that's this evenings entertainment sorted

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

I recently found out that a frame builder who I'd never heard of has a workshop on the outskirts of the town in which my parents live. Other than having taken a quick look at the website I can't really comment on the product other than to say that he/she/they come across more than a bit artisanal and you'll be lucky to get a frame & forks for less than £3k plus paint* - and then only as part of a full bike build. Oh, and my biggest bug-bear of modern life - he/she/they don't have landline phone number listed.
*Not counting the cost of the bike fit b*ll*cks you have to go through before they'll agree to build you a bike.

Check this out. Extra if you don't have a bike build??
https://feathercycles.cc/pricing

 

[tenbikes]

I couldn't get any UK frame builder interested in building me a fat bike, not even if i gave them a frame to copy........nor would anyone alter a steel bike to fit a drive side elevated chainstay.

So, I'm surprised that the industry is struggling. I thought they must be doing well to turn away work!

 

[August Bicycles]

I recently found out that a frame builder who I'd never heard of has a workshop on the outskirts of the town in which my parents live. Other than having taken a quick look at the website I can't really comment on the product other than to say that he/she/they come across more than a bit artisanal and you'll be lucky to get a frame & forks for less than £3k plus paint* - and then only as part of a full bike build. Oh, and my biggest bug-bear of modern life - he/she/they don't have landline phone number listed.
*Not counting the cost of the bike fit b*ll*cks you have to go through before they'll agree to build you a bike.

We don't list a phone number on our website, when you are a one-man show and you are trying to get things done, the phone constantly ringing consumes a lot of time. Clients generally initiate contact through email, maybe messages on social media, but from there, we progress to workshop visits and multiple phone calls if necessary. We find it nice to have things in email so any decisions/choices etc. are there in writing, verbal contracts can sometimes turn sour.

Again, in some instances having bike fit data that the client has signed off on can be an insurance policy for you, I've not personally had any issues with my customers, though some builder friends of mine have had instances where people have claimed bikes that they have had built don't fit them, but they have been built exactly to the bike fit specs that the client has supplied.

Our workshop is by appointment only, I would love to have people pop in and say hello, it gets pretty lonely, but when half a dozen people drop in during a day and spend half an hour chatting and stopping you working, that means you are three hours behind, nobody is paying your wages. I guess in employment, you stand by the coffee machine chatting with colleagues for 3 hours a day, you are still getting paid!

 

[August Bicycles]

I couldn't get any UK frame builder interested in building me a fat bike, not even if i gave them a frame to copy........nor would anyone alter a steel bike to fit a drive side elevated chainstay.

So, I'm surprised that the industry is struggling. I thought they must be doing well to turn away work!

Should have dropped me a line!

 

[jim haseltine]

Check this out. Extra if you don't have a bike build??
https://feathercycles.cc/pricing

There's a coincidence......
So that's a minimum of £3.5k plus paint, for a plain frameset.