Spoke questions - single butted and 1.8mm straight gauge

[TheAntsPants]

I'm having trouble sourcing spokes for a lightweight wheelbuild and was wondering what has happened to the wheelbuilding world since I last built an "exotic" wheel 10+ years ago.

I used to run 1.8mm (15g) straight gauge spokes up front, but nobody sells them any more. I'm also looking for single butted spokes (1.8-2.0mm) and nobody does those either!

Have 1.8-2.0mm single butted spokes ever existed in 26" sizes? If so, what happened to them? I'm not prepared to cut down double butted spokes and then thread them. If anyone knows of where I can get some, I'd be very grateful.

Also, has anyone tried the cheap Chinese spokes on fleabay? Are they actually stainless steel?

 

[konacarl]

I wouldn't risk any of the Chinese ebay specials personally.
SPA Cycles have double and single butted spokes in load of lengths.
I did have some of the ACI ones but they were snapping at the elbow so I tend to get Sapim ones for builds now. They have some in stock by the look of things.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m20b0s156p0 ... nts/Spokes

 

[Once A Hero]

Re:

I've got a pair of wheels built with straight gauge DT spokes, I'd have to measure the actual gauge.
I'd be happy to strip the wheels down if 64 second hand spokes are any good to you?

 

[TheAntsPants]

I wouldn't risk any of the Chinese ebay specials personally.

Yeah, aside from DT, I've had problems with even branded spokes, though I haven't tried Sapim.

SPA Cycles have double and single butted spokes in load of lengths.

The only single butted ones I can find there are thicker at the thread :roll: , which I really don't understand.

I've got a pair of wheels built with straight gauge DT spokes, I'd have to measure the actual gauge.
I'd be happy to strip the wheels down if 64 second hand spokes are any good to you?

Thanks, but I find fresh spokes easier to build with.

 

[phill77]

Out of interest, what's your reasoning for wanting plain or single butted spokes?

There are good arguments for butted spokes being more reliable and suffering less from fatigue failures at the elbow and nipple.

 

[TheAntsPants]

Out of interest, what's your reasoning for wanting plain or single butted spokes?

I tried plain gauge 1.6mm spokes (32 spoke 3x) on the front wheel long ago and didn't break anything, but found it was too flexy. Sprint and I would hear brake rub. Not a lot of off road at that time of my life. 1.8mm seems to be the sweet spot for front wheels for me. I figured 2.0mm plain gauge or even 1.8-2.0 butted was unnecessary. YMMV.

The rear is another story of course. In my experience a well built (ie by me!) wheel with 2.0mm plain or butted will hold up, but junk brand spokes and/or shoddily built (ie by machine) wheels eventually fail at the spoke bend, never anywhere else. Again YMMV.

I'm the type to push things to the limit cos that's the minimalist nature of bikes. Spokes are also one of the few parts which do not get more expensive the lighter you go, barring butted spokes of course!

I'm planning to go 1.8mm plain gauge radial 28 spoke up front, 1.8mm plain gauge radial non-drive side rear and 2.0-1.8mm single butted on the drive side! I have never had spokes strip the nipples, even alu, so I don't understand the need for double butting.

If it all goes literally pear shaped, one of the kids gets an uber-light wheelset to ride to school

 

[2manyoranges]

Re:

There are some excellent spoke suppliers, such as TrueWheels in Brighton (Anthony and Rich):

http://truewheels.co.uk/wp/

They will almost certainly have stock (boy I gave seen their many many boxes and shelves) and will help out supplying if not currently in stock.

They have built wheels for me for a very long time, and they build from track to DH. We have THRASHED their wheels and I have not even needed to true any, even after awful Alpine DH abuse.

They particularly will be able to advise on hub/spoke/rim combinations, which is critical in a radial build. I played with radial but do not use it off road since it does not have the structural integrity of 3-cross. Some hubs really don’t like radial and develop stress fractures very swiftly.

We always use double-butted (Sapim, DT) for off-road since you obtain lower weight and greater resilience in the build. Plain gauge can use lower tension, but off road feels a bit ‘dead’ compared with butted. I have used triple-butted DT spokes in the past, and they were lovely (someone just landed on here the relatively rare Mavic Dakar hubs and 321 rims which had these spokes in...you got a real bargain...) such a great feel and very very strong.

But give TrueWheels a call or email...mention ‘Tim from Cambridge’....

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re:

I think the last 1.8 at the nipple where from Fatbirds Don't Fly..
They also had the nipples cheap at the time.
The reason I went in while I was down there.
(Hunstanton)

They're not common as 2.0 at the nipple is pretty much standard.
I tend to use 2.0/1.5/2.0 if I can find them cheap.
I prefer not to use DT if I can and actually use SAPIM or if Wheelsmith could still be easily bought over here, I'd use them.
I just prefer the style of butting.

have a look at SAPIM D-light as a compromise.
1.65 middle, short 2.0 but at the spoke and it only butts to 2.0 right at the spoke thread.

SAPIM leader should be available in straight 1.8

err might go check what I have when I get up

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re:

There are custuom cut sapim 1.8 of on eBay.
but for DT bargain basement prices on common MTB sizes https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202658782387