Sorry I was slow in the singletrack - my bike just caught fire…

[bikeworkshop]

Powerful ebikes are popular with the juvenile county lines drug dealers
they ride 2-up, then backie kiddy trots off to do the deal while pilot hangs around scoping for the fuzz

 

[Betsy]

My 15yr old has a Pure e-scooter which he uses for riding to school.. it’s limited to 17mph.. even the swanky Pure McLaren’s are limited to 17mph.. you’re just getting greater range for your dosh..

He rides up Highcliffe Rd in S11 en route to school.. it’s steep af and impossible to ride due to giving way to cars coming down, if you know it.. you’ll know what I mean.
He’ll leave his scoots in his friends garage and they all walk to school together.. he can leave his waterproofs there and arrive at school in a dry uniform. I used to worry more when he would take shortcuts on foot, through the woods / allotments in the dark, the e-scooter is the perfect solution.

The cops seem cool with it, they often give him a friendly wave, but he’s not wearing a bally or brandishing a zombie knife.

His scooter has a front and rear light, indicators and 4x reflectors on either side of each wheel.. seems contradictory that this would be considered illegal while e-bikes are considered fine.

 

[Totoro]

Ebikes have their use cases, but the proliferation of standards, black box nature of the expensive motors, unproven technology etc don't make them particularly economical or sustainable for MTB at the moment. I have friends who are going through roughly a motor a year, plus a bunch of other parts due to the weight - I'd be surprised if they get more than 1K-1.5K off road miles out of them. To my mind, they just cannot square the circle of light weight, user maintainable, powerful, reliable and reasonable cost.

But if an eMTB was the difference between riding with my mates, and not due to injury/illness/age etc - I'd have one.

Much like having an off-road bike then, I used to ride motocross which wasn't exactly green, was for no reason than fun, cost me lots and I went through more parts than I did when I had an E-bike. I did have the E-bike while recvoering from injury, as soon as I fit enough to not need one I got rid. I can see the use of them for the reasons you stated.

An e-MTB is a plaything, so it's an overall consumer of resources.

An e- commuter bike could be replacing a car on the road, and might be more efficient than public transport.

An e-MTB could get somebody out for at least some kind of exercise and freedom.
When I did have an E-bike the amount of people who gave me hassle for owning it... while ignoring all the passing cars electric or other which took up way more of the road and usually only had one person in them. I never understood that.

As for selling the ones that you can't use on public roads, its no different than selling motocross bikes. Most people will say they are just going to use them on private land but some will not.

Also other electric things catch on fire, its usually just the cheap ones but a few years back higher end phones were catching fire although in fairly low numbers it was enough to make the news and those bloomin vapes.

I do enjoy these threads, love them or hate them the E-bikes are here now and probably to stay. They have a place, I have a love hate thing with them, they are heavy and some folk are just lazy. But if somebody is injured or just working on fitness or even just getting on a bit then why not? One friend was finding it hard going on his MTB now he is mid 70s, he has just bought an E-bike and is out all the time again now. And if somebody is doing a boring and or hilly commute and has ditched the car (electric or other) then I think its the lesser evil.

Either way they are here now, just like the bloomin car

 

[greencat]

An e-MTB is a plaything, so it's an overall consumer of resources.

An MTB is by and large a plaything. Almost no-one needs one to get get around. Ditto many road bikes. As are I suspect most of the bikes posted on this forum. No-one needs to restore a bike from 30+ years ago with NOS boutique parts etc - a subset of which are essentially unrideable due to their poor design and being long past their expected life span of a race season.

Humans aren't rational about these things - and we don't have to chose stuff purely on the basis of utility.

 

[greencat]

My 15yr old has a Pure e-scooter which he uses for riding to school.. it’s limited to 17mph.. even the swanky Pure McLaren’s are limited to 17mph.. you’re just getting greater range for your dosh..

He rides up Highcliffe Rd in S11 en route to school.. it’s steep af and impossible to ride due to giving way to cars coming down, if you know it.. you’ll know what I mean.
He’ll leave his scoots in his friends garage and they all walk to school together.. he can leave his waterproofs there and arrive at school in a dry uniform. I used to worry more when he would take shortcuts on foot, through the woods / allotments in the dark, the e-scooter is the perfect solution.

The cops seem cool with it, they often give him a friendly wave, but he’s not wearing a bally or brandishing a zombie knife.

His scooter has a front and rear light, indicators and 4x reflectors on either side of each wheel.. seems contradictory that this would be considered illegal while e-bikes are considered fine.

The police are simply being reasonable and turning a blind eye. If there's ever a crackdown (at the behest of some local politician no doubt), ask your son to skip using the scooter for day or so. The police won't be able to be cool about it, and son will likely get swept up in it all.

I got caught in London near Angel in one such sweep. Busy road, and rather than stop get off and walk my bike 5m to the bike rack - I went up a dropped kerb, and rode the 5m. Out jumps a copper who gave me all of the chat and asked stupid leading questions about the law. I listened with polite exasperation, and we went on our way - thankfully without a fine. I think lots of people did get fined that day. Many other days, I've spoken to police officers in the area who've said that cycling on the pavement around that spot is the safer choice, and if you aren't annoying anyone they don't care.

 

[Totoro]

I must say I am so glad that I don't need an E-bike right now but if I did and couldn't get out again without one I'd get one right away. I'd also have one if I had to do the same tough boring commute that the lad at my LBS has to do, his commuter bike is electric and I can bloomin see why.

I hate all the out of shape people on them who ride where they like, ruin the countryside and just would never be there if not for that bloomin motor. I can also see why people hate them on the proper trails and how many there bloomin are using them now. Also the feral drug chavs who use the illegal ones to get up to no good and cause havoc on roads and paths.

As I said though they are here now and we just have to deal with it and remember that in a few rare cases they are a good thing. Somebody being able to get back out or one more car off the road. I dunno, I just don't bloomin know.

Hang on, I think I already bloomin said all that. I've not even had a beer, too much caffine, yeah that might be it.

 

[Betsy]

The police are simply being reasonable and turning a blind eye. If there's ever a crackdown (at the behest of some local politician no doubt), ask your son to skip using the scooter for day or so. The police won't be able to be cool about it, and son will likely get swept up in it all.

I got caught in London near Angel in one such sweep. Busy road, and rather than stop get off and walk my bike 5m to the bike rack - I went up a dropped kerb, and rode the 5m. Out jumps a copper who gave me all of the chat and asked stupid leading questions about the law. I listened with polite exasperation, and we went on our way - thankfully without a fine. I think lots of people did get fined that day. Many other days, I've spoken to police officers in the area who've said that cycling on the pavement around that spot is the safer choice, and if you aren't annoying anyone they don't care.

I just tell him.. if you’re behaving yourself’s and you’re not riding them around the neighbourhood after 10pm there will be no reason for folks to call the cops, whereas you live in a neighbourhood where kids are constantly f**king around on e-scooters they’ll get reported with greater frequency and the cops will constantly be on the look out for kids on e-scooters whether they’ve done owt wrong or not..

Yes I noticed they had a purge in Derby.. the fuzz confiscated 300 e-bikes/scooters and checked whether they’d been de-restricted, if they had, they were crushed, if they hadn’t, you could collect them with a warning.

 

[bikeworkshop]

My 15yr old has a Pure e-scooter which he uses for riding to school.. it’s limited to 17mph.. even the swanky Pure McLaren’s are limited to 17mph.. you’re just getting greater range for your dosh..

He rides up Highcliffe Rd in S11 en route to school.. it’s steep af and impossible to ride due to giving way to cars coming down, if you know it.. you’ll know what I mean.
He’ll leave his scoots in his friends garage and they all walk to school together.. he can leave his waterproofs there and arrive at school in a dry uniform. I used to worry more when he would take shortcuts on foot, through the woods / allotments in the dark, the e-scooter is the perfect solution.

The cops seem cool with it, they often give him a friendly wave, but he’s not wearing a bally or brandishing a zombie knife.

His scooter has a front and rear light, indicators and 4x reflectors on either side of each wheel.. seems contradictory that this would be considered illegal while e-bikes are considered fine.

The risk here is if he's in a collision, the illegal nature of his transport makes liability an issue - and I don't think he could insure against it

 

[Betsy]

The risk here is if he's in a collision, the illegal nature of his transport makes liability an issue - and I don't think he could insure against it

There is that.. he leaves our house and joins the cycle path, through the park along the porter valley.. the only dodge bit is Highcliffe Rd.. he goes up the pavement (it’s fairly quiet because it’s so steep folks don’t like to walk up there) if he sees a pedestrian, he’ll ride on the road till they’ve passed.. there are 2x schools nr Bents Green but they stagger the start times so there isn’t as much traffic..

I’d rather see all the kids either walking to school or on e-scooter.. rather than being dropped at the gates in mum’s fancy Range Rover, it used to be a 40min walk for him.. now it’s a 15min scooter ride.

One things for sure.. he certainly gets his paper round done quickly

 

[bikeworkshop]

There is that.. he leaves our house and joins the cycle path, through the park along the porter valley.. the only dodge bit is Highcliffe Rd.. he goes up the pavement (it’s fairly quiet because it’s so steep folks don’t like to walk up there) if he sees a pedestrian, he’ll ride on the road till they’ve passed.. there are 2x schools nr Bents Green but they stagger the start times so there isn’t as much traffic..

I’d rather see all the kids either walking to school or on e-scooter.. rather than being dropped at the gates in mum’s fancy Range Rover, it used to be a 40min walk for him.. now it’s a 15min scooter ride.

One things for sure.. he certainly gets his paper round done quickly

The law is an ass on electric transport that's for sure.
What little of it there is.