Silly Police - Fine for blowing nose (Case now dropped)

[Easy_Rider]

OK, so if this conviction is upheld in court then any of these can be offences too in a stationary vehicle,

Yawning,
Sneezing,
Hiccuping,
Blinking,
Wriggle bottom in seat to get comfy,
Reset trip counter,
Change radio stations,
Farting,
Pushing classes back up your nose,
Adjust seat belt,
Adjust rear view mirror,
Scratching,
Rubbing your eye or face,
Winding window up or down,
Bobbing head gently to music,
Tapping fingers on steering wheel,
Talking to the radio,
and so on....

Any of the above could also constitute not being in proper control of you vehicle. So now it's up to the Police officers discretion, oh the power he wields if he doesn't like you or is having a bad day.

He was offered a Conditional offer of a fixed penalty which offers the biggest discount on tarriff 3 points £60 lighter life carries on.

It sounds light from the outset, but the 3 points is the biggest thing, you can now pick up points so easily, and after 4 strikes you're out! Loose job, income, house, it's a big punishment.

My brother picked up 3 points recently, apparently he was driving past these 4 officers with no hands on the steering wheel doing 20mph. He did have his hands on the wheel, when he asked the officers "where they were then" they just said "oh up here somewhere". He's a student, could not afford to take this to court, the feeling of injustice is strong. He has also become terrified of them lately, he has been stopped 86 times to date "routine stop checks". He cannot afford to loose his license as he lives in the sticks and needs to travel to uni and drop his wife off at work.

But for the Police it's a nice tick in the box.
It all leaves us as very stressed drivers, which may lead to other distractions and another tick in the box. I don't believe this leads to safer roads.

Anyway, i'm getting wound up again so i'll stop

 

[channa]

I must admit I used to get quite wound up too, but a little more karma nowadays.

It does all get you thinking though :roll:

channa

 

[Neil]

They don't issue fines for ridiculous "offences" in the europe, why? There is no law writted than one must not blow their nose whilst parked up in traffic!

There isnt here, the man in question is being prosecuted for failure to have proper control of his vehicle.

With his handbrake on, in stationary traffic, how was he not in control of his vehicle?

If he'd actually started moving, or was driving normally, then perhaps it could be a different thing.

Police officers and traffic officers have always had discretion when deciding to either issue FPNs, or report for prosecution - speeding is an absolute office, too - but not everybody stopped for speeding get's either a FPN, or referred for prosecution (for speeds beyond the "limits" of FPNs).

All this comes down to is ease. You try reporting vandalism, burglary or other less easily detected or resolved crimes, you won't get anything like the same response - because it's not as easy to look as if you're doing much about crime.

Some of this comes down to how the Police forces have had their performance judged over recent decades - but some of it, also, is in decisions made by middle managers, and coppers on the beat.

 

[Easy_Rider]

I must admit I used to get quite wound up too, but a little more karma nowadays.

It does all get you thinking though :roll:

channa

Well, neither of my brothers or I have had any karma back yet. Right since 1996 with my first SP30, ok i did speed, but the manner in which it was caused by the officers driving 2 foot off my bumper, i was young 17, it was dark and thought it was a taxi trying to get me to move faster, so i did, then blue lights come on.
My Brother was almost convicted for dangerous driving after some twerp jumped out of a side street. Brother in XR2 he in a Volvo, Police decide XR2 driver must have been speeding etc etc, the only reason I believe they didn't proceed was because they refused him water in the interview and he was quite visibly shaken by the incident. He had another twerp ram him up the back, Police refused to attend, after swapping details that's the last he heard of that guy, uninsured vehicle, car turned up with no damage a few days later, brother got stiffed with the repair bill on his car. Another incident down in Oxford, brother was being followed by an unmarked vehicle (except at the time he thought it was someone after him), he did various turns on roundabouts and it was still following, he was genuinly worried it might be a gang after him, it was at night on deserted bypass sections, so he hoofed it to loose him, and did, next thing he's been trapped by 3 traffic cars! I could go on and on with the countless "incidents" the Police take with us. Its just like being bullied in school and if you snitch you get double. So we just have to rollover and take it.

Since when has a Police officer been qualified to judge that you are not in proper control of your vehicle for such controversial incidents?? At some point in that particular incident, the officer must have thought "look at him, he's blowing his nose, he's not in control of that vehicle" instead of thinking "well, he looks smart enough to have waited until the traffic is stationary to do that" :?:

 

[perry]

what made 4 people look at one man in a car at precisely the same moment ? kind of handy they did eh , not one said " oh well actually I was looking elsewhere "

I'm still amazed that there were 4 of them in the same place at the same time , who all seem to share the same pair of eyes and thought patterns .

Makes me think of that stars in their eyes where one guy was all of the village people

 

[Neil]

Well, neither of my brothers or I have had any karma back yet. Right since 1996 with my first SP30, ok i did speed, but the manner in which it was caused by the officers driving 2 foot off my bumper, i was young 17, it was dark and thought it was a taxi trying to get me to move faster, so i did, then blue lights come on.

I had a similar thing happen to me, on a rural, 2-lane (although not dual carriageway, but two lanes in either direction) 50 and 60 mph stretch of road.

I'd been driving at a normal pace (either at or just below the speed limit) and overtaken the odd car (two lanes to do so), and a car had been driving really close behind as I was overtaking a car. I moved over after overtaking and it followed, still driving really close.

This went on for a few miles, and then I stopped for some traffic lights. When they changed to green, as I was driving a reasonably sprightly car, I decided to put some distance between us and accelerated well (60 mph limit). After I'd left this car behind in the distance, then I saw the blue lights come on. I suspect I hadn't broken the speed limit, but if I did, briefly, it would have been by no more than 10mph whilst I was accelerating away.

It was one, pretty young, copper, in a marked, albeit normal (ie not traffic) Astra. We had a brief chat, and he was suggesting I should watch my speed, I said I only drove with any pace, because he'd been hugging my rear bumper for miles, and I spotted an opportuinity (away from traffic lights) to put some distance between us - and if he didn't expect me to react to that, he should think an awful lot more about how close he drives to vehicles. (BTW the car I was driving wasn't a normal chav-mobile that you'd expect to get pulled in, it was a large saloon, quite boring looking).

He said something like sometimes they need to drive close when following cars, to which I replied that he was driving at an unsafe following distance, which was deplorable, more so when I find that he's actually a Police officer. He had already started the conversation saying that he wasn't booking me for anything.

He then proceeded to warn me that there would be lots of speed traps on the road in the near future, to which I replied that as long as people didn't do stupid things like tailgate me, I'd have had no reason to put in such smart acceleration away from the lights. I also suggested he should rethink his following distances.

It was all very amicable, but I think it was really a rookie plod (not traffic) who didn't really have a clue, but got a bit annoyed when he couldn't live with me on acceleration - which only happened because he was glued to my rear bumper for miles.

Since when has a Police officer been qualified to judge that you are not in proper control of your vehicle for such controversial incidents?? At some point in that particular incident, the officer must have thought "look at him, he's blowing his nose, he's not in control of that vehicle" instead of thinking "well, he looks smart enough to have waited until the traffic is stationary to do that" :?:

I suspect the thought process was - there looks to be somebody doing something I can book 'em for, might get me further up the league table.

 

[channa]

With his handbrake on, in stationary traffic, how was he not in control of his vehicle?

If he'd actually started moving, or was driving normally, then perhaps it could be a different thing.

Police officers and traffic officers have always had discretion when deciding to either issue FPNs, or report for prosecution - speeding is an absolute office, too - but not everybody stopped for speeding get's either a FPN, or referred for prosecution (for speeds beyond the "limits" of FPNs).

All this comes down to is ease. You try reporting vandalism, burglary or other less easily detected or resolved crimes, you won't get anything like the same response - because it's not as easy to look as if you're doing much about crime.

Some of this comes down to how the Police forces have had their performance judged over recent decades - but some of it, also, is in decisions made by middle managers, and coppers on the beat.[/quote]

Possibly more than a grain of truth in your post.

Certainly, in the case of speeding offences, considering all the safety partnershipsand considering the revenue till recently didnt go to the treasury, A nice little money earner. Good work if you can find it.

Channa

 

[The Ken]

One story I always liked (may be urban myth?) is you can get done for drunk driving if you are the only person in a car and have the keys on you. This includes being asleep in the back.

I recall a person got done for dangerous driving because they sneezed (an involuntary reaction) and crashed. Sneezing apparently causes quite a few accidents.

 

[Easy_Rider]

One story I always liked (may be urban myth?) is you can get done for drunk driving if you are the only person in a car and have the keys on you. This includes being asleep in the back.

That actually happened to a friend of mine in university back in 2001. After a night out he decided he had had too much to drink to drive home so decided to spend the night in his car, but he was a little more savvy, he put the keys on top of his front wheel. It still went to court! Luckily he had a good lawyer and he was found not guilty.

I recall a person got done for dangerous driving because they sneezed (an involuntary reaction) and crashed. Sneezing apparently causes quite a few accidents.

Ridiculous isn't it, whatever happened to just plain old "accidents", there has to be a blame put somewhere all the time.

 

[Neil]

One story I always liked (may be urban myth?) is you can get done for drunk driving if you are the only person in a car and have the keys on you. This includes being asleep in the back.

I believe you can, and people have. I think truckers feel the effects, too.

I guess the thing is, with people in cars, or getting in cars, it's an easy excuse ("I was going to sleep it off...").

It'll be "Drunk in charge of a vehicle" or something like that, though, not drunk driving, per se.

I suspect it's the case for many examples that seem ridiculous, it's dealing with the spurious excuses.

In this case, though, they could visually see the example and they could have used discretion and not bring the reputation of Police into disrepute.