Salmond v Darling debate: STV

[old_coyote_pedaller]

Re:

As a nation, aye right, we shat it.
Since 1997 there has been only 1 Tory MP in Scotland and for a while there were none. Why? Because we didn't believe what they told us nor did we agree with their politics. So why believe them now? They are the same Tories, more right wing than ever, peddling the same lies assisted with glee by the Labour party. The Labour party in England I can understand as they have become more Tory than the Tories in order to get themselves elected. But Scottish Labour, why? They know what is going on in Scotland and what is heading for us when the Tories with the need to outdo UKIP will be more vicious next year. Why have they also joined in the lies knowing we will get effed next year and for the years to come? Can it be that they are so petty they hate the SNP more than they love Scotland? Johann Lamont last night could not look at Pat Kane, I think it was, when she was talking to him after he handed her her dinner. A career Labourite politician leading the party in Scotland who has all the gumption of a coo in a field. That she is the best we have in Scotland says it all.

 

[RobMac]

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I'd like you's all to put your hands together for out Political Correspondent for Central Fife OCP

 

[firedfromthecircus]

Things have got to change throughout the UK, when over 1.5 million UK citizens say via the demcratic process that they dont want the status quo, you'd be a total erse to ignore it !

So thats 2.3% of the UK population, and most of them are poor by his standards. Why exactly is Cameron going to care?

Oh, and he IS an erse, as is Clegg, Moribund and Farage.

The real winner yesterday was democracy. To have both voter registration and turnout so high was amazing. There can be no doubt that the people of Scotland have spoken. But the notion of Scotland as a nation has ceased to exist except on shortbread tin lids! The accusation has long been leveled at Scotland that the 'culture' was just some romanticised notion of kilts and bagpipes and Burns which was underpinned by nothing. Yesterday we had a chance to show that was not true. Not just a chance, but the only chance in our entire history. That we are different from the rest of the UK. That the culture does run deeper than a wee dance and a dram at a ceilidh. And we used that chance to say, nah. We're not different. We don't care about poverty, fairness, equality, imperialism etc etc etc. Or if we do, certainly not enough to shoogle the boat and risk being a few quid worse off a year.

So I'm struggling to see anything to be positive about in Scottish political terms.

 

[old_coyote_pedaller]

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velo, what democratic process? The Tories don't need voters in Scotland to get elected, a wee accommodation with UKIP and they're sorted. They can ignore us because we pished away the best chance we'll get for a long time to be rid of them. What are we going to do now? We just told them that we accept that what they think is the best for us.

Salmond has no chance of holding them to their pledges, there never were any real written down on paper and signed promises just vague "if you vote no we'll give you more powers" pish. They can do what they want as we, are as of now, are powerless.

Oh we'll get some additional powers but they will be meaningless because whoever governs Scotland in Edinburgh will need to work with a lower allocation of funds from Westminster because the English electorate will need to be placated.


I fear for the poor, the disadvantaged and vulnerable because the Tories have already shown what they are capable of, hitting those that cannot fight back.


The worst is yet to come.

 

[zigzag]

I think ultimately this could be a good thing for Scottish Labour - I think we'll see them realize that unless they split from English Labour, they are done in Scotland, at both the Scottish and UK level. Right now they're probably thinking they've done well and that the Scottish people are getting back behind them after today's result, but the reality is I think fear, uncertainty and doubt won the day, not them and what they stand for.

English Labour's about to wake up to the fact that they can no longer depend on any Scottish MPs helping their majority at Westminister - Cameron's about to answer the West Lothian question, and you better believe it'll be settled in the interests of the 50 million voters south of the border. English Labour will have no option but to follow his lead. Interesting times.

 

[old_coyote_pedaller]

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Thanks Rob, but I'm so depressed I can't even get angry about it. Just have a rant.

Words that my Dad said to me in the late '80s into '90s at the height of Thatcherism come back to me now.
My Dad worked for a Labour MP in Glasgow in the early fifties, he was a committed socialist that thought the democratic process would see us to a better life. For a while that seemed like it was happening, NHS (our biggest treasure), nationalisation of industries to the benefit of the nation as a whole instead of the few, education etc.

He said,"Jockie, if I'd known then what I know now, it wouldn't have been the democratic process it would have been the bomb and the bullet."

He meant it, in hindsight maybe, but as a teenager in the 1930s he was too young, 14/15?, to go to Spain to fight Franco, he would have gone if my granddad had let him, but as soon as war with the Fascists in Germany was on the cards he joined the Black Watch underage to fight them. So maybe he would have gone down that road.

Sitting here with tears in my eyes thinking how he was willing to fight for and work for a better world but we as a nation are too feart to do anything to better our lives.

 

[highlandsflyer]

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I think the number of young voters for YES is a healthy indicator our national identity is in safe hands.

The Westminster rabble will seek to short change us on the extra powers, and at some point they will implode on the EU question.

This will not be our last change in my lifetime.

It may be a case of bite by bite, but I am sure this is merely a stepping stone in preference to the great leap.

The YES vote is at an all time high, let us see if we can galvanise that into a political movement that is more inclusive than the SNP party itself, given its central theme.

Lots to be positive about.

 

[velomaniac]

FFTC and OCP, dont give into the national stereotype as miserable pesimists. Think positive and fight on. The way your going on you'd think the entire Scottish nation let you down which is a great disservice to the Yes camp and those as yet too young to vote. Chin up and onward we go !

 

[old_coyote_pedaller]

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A majority who voted no let the country down, choosing to believe the lies from liars with a looong track record of lying.
Can't believe they were so gullible to accept what they were told as the truth when so few of them were willing to believe what the same Tories told them at recent general elections. They've rejected them for years then accept what they say as gospel when they tell them to vote no. Why go along with people who have been doing us over since as long as I can remember?

No matter how much we "fight on", they can and will ignore us. Can't ignore 1.6million? They ignored a far greater number of Scottish voters for years with no effect on their ability to get themselves repeatedly elected in England.
The Labour party has emasculated itself, how can they oppose the Tories in Parliament and next year's election without being laughed at when they've cheerled the no campaign?

No ******* wonder I'm pessimistic.

 

[DynaCol]

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Nicely put Velo, I totally agree. Yes it's massively dissapointing but the last thing we should be doing now is throwing in the towel and falling in to a depression about the result. I think what it's shown is that the support for change is extremely strong in Scotland. When I've spoken to work colleagues south of the border (English, Scottish, Welsh & Irish BTW) they tend to agree that things can't stay as they are, even if they didn't necessarily agree with or understand the independence vote (too many people focusing on the old rivalries which are irrelevant and not in the least bit helpful). We may have lost this round but this isn't the end of it, not by a long way. I for one am quite optimistic about the future, will be interesting to see what happens over the coming months.