Retro Bikes of Quality

[MikeD]

I reckon if the thread title had been "Retro Bikes Of Distinction" then people would be generally on the same page

 

[halaburt]

So why didnt you use this example in the first place?

Ttrying to educate and expose the virtues of a brand, the first example was pretty useless.

Embarassed to say that I didnt like the look of this one as much as its too big for me, and I can't have any bike in my dream garage that is too big for me...

Those WTB cantilevers are no good

The cantilevered brake 'Ham (also mine) is an interesting beast for several reasons. In the incarnation pictured, I would propose that it's a pretty severe "Retrobike Crime".

The history: It's one of the very earliest Cunninghams... #16, probably built in about 1982. I acquired it in about 1994 and it was in pretty rough shame, with all the parts and steel fittings showing quite a bit of rust (for those of you that think Marin/California is a giant desert, you're wrong). At the time, my only other bike was Cunningham #15D (the one I posted first in this thread) and I loved it then as much as I do now. It seemed logical to me at the time to build up #16 with all the same great parts I was using on #15D... M900, CBR cranks, and every part in the WTB catalog. Charlie cleaned up and refinished the frame and replaced the rusted-out (riveted-on) fittings.

The design: Other than it's method of construction and the quality/design of some of the parts there is ALMOST NOTHING about this bike that is especially "Cunningham". Missing is almost every one of the design innovations and features that he pioneered. My guess is that this bike's original customer basically asked Charlie to create a Cunningham-built version of the Ritchey/Fisher/etc.'s of the time.

I've enjoyed it as a fun, "cruise-y" bike to ride when I want something that's very different than #15D (or my other bikes that are all much closer in spirit/ride to #15D).

Now: I'm in the midst of a multi-year re-rebuild of #16... replacing all the early-90's parts with appropriate early-80's parts.

 

[Stick Legs]

My 2 cents worth.

Unique, a novel soulutuon to the problem of custom butting your tubes and a damn fine looking machine.
Maybe not influential, but certainly cutting edge.

 

[utahdog2003]

I think some of you are tying yourselves in knots trying to tie down something that doesn’t need to be.

It’s not a competition about which bike is best, just a thread to show off great bikes. If you have to ask yourself is it quality?, chances are it’s not (like that green homemade thing).

This thread sucks. :? Wasn't the POINT of Retrobike to show off great bikes from back in the day? Now we need a special thread to do that!?

In the creation of this thread, it seems to me like a handful of people trying to get away from an over population of mediocre Kona Fire Mountains and Jamis Diablos and the like and find a happy place where they only have to look at good bikes all in one thread. Well, I already watched VRC go down that shit hole. If the need for a special thread about special bikes and special innovations exists now, then maybe there needs to be a hard re-evaluation of what Retrobike is all about!

There has been a slide in quality of bikes around here and now rather than reinforce a mission of the board we're instead neglecting things to a point where we need a special "Good Bikes and Cool Ideas" thread to filter out the slick from the shit.

VRC never recovered from pedestrianisation. I hope retrobike can. So sad. :cry:

 

[mikee]

I think some of you are tying yourselves in knots trying to tie down something that doesn’t need to be.

It’s not a competition about which bike is best, just a thread to show off great bikes. If you have to ask yourself is it quality?, chances are it’s not (like that green homemade thing).

This thread sucks. :? Wasn't the POINT of Retrobike to show off great bikes from back in the day? Now we need a special thread to do that!?

In the creation of this thread, it seems to me like a handful of people trying to get away from an over population of mediocre Kona Fire Mountains and Jamis Diablos and the like and find a happy place where they only have to look at good bikes all in one thread. Well, I already watched VRC go down that shit hole. If the need for a special thread about special bikes and special innovations exists now, then maybe there needs to be a hard re-evaluation of what Retrobike is all about!

There has been a slide in quality of bikes around here and now rather than reinforce a mission of the board we're instead neglecting things to a point where we need a special "Good Bikes and Cool Ideas" thread to filter out the slick from the shit.

VRC never recovered from pedestrianisation. I hope retrobike can. So sad. :cry:

you say that as a long standing member of both these sites
a lot has changed in the past 5/6 years , retro bike is more popular than
ever ,and in line with that the type of bikes displayed have changed
maybe there's some more people like me who like midrange crap
that the more "discerning" members seem to only tolerate
anyway i'm enjoying this thread ,i like the education

midrange crapbike mike

 

[Tad]

Elev – what’s the significance of silver brazing? Am I right in thinking that using it keeps the heat down which is good for heat treated tubing like Prestige and 753?

Silver braze or silver solder has a much lower menting point than bronze braze. Also you can't fillet braze a frame with silver solder, you need to build a lugged frame if you want to use it.

753 was often silver soldered and lugged as it was fag paper thin.

Frame builders also use silver solder for finishing frames so things like cable giudes, bottle cage and shifter bosses are silver soldered on. It's also used to fill small holes drilled in tubes to let hot gasses from the build process escape and to fill dents. It's dead easy to use and I've had a go several times fixing broken braze ons. The down side of it is it is damned expensive compared with bronze braze.

 

[utahdog2003]

you say that as a long standing member of both these sites
a lot has changed in the past 5/6 years , retro bike is more popular than
ever ,and in line with that the type of bikes displayed have changed
maybe there's some more people like me who like midrange crap
that the more "discerning" members seem to only tolerate
anyway i'm enjoying this thread ,i like the education

midrange crapbike mike

You could learn as much from a Cunningham thread. The Cunningham thread that didn't get started because the guy with the Cunningham didn't want to wade through the morasse around here to post about it. I dig the midrange crap in moderation. I OWN some midrange crap, but lets be real...the midrange crap morasse is getting pretty deep.

I've kept quiet about it until this thread, but holy crikies people!...this is a carbon copy of the VRC model for implosion. :cry:

 

[doctor-bond]

This thread sucks. Confused

Utah, given that is how you feel, why don’t you wander off and find another that better suits your mien? There are many & diverse threads on RB. I’m confident that you can find a better one.

Wasn't the POINT of Retrobike to show off great bikes from back in the day?

Yes.

Now we need a special thread to do that!?

No, not just one thread, we need many more threads that show off great bikes. I posted this one because:

A: given the amount of threads with non-great bikes from anytime, it is hard to find what I like: great bikes from BITD.

B: there are loads of quality bikes that have been posted here and elsewhere that could be happily resurrected for a new audience. And I also wanted a thread which illicited information about them, not just "wow great bike" comments.

I already watched VRC go down that shit hole.

You are confusing a single thread with a forum. I’m not suggesting that the whole of RB does anything differently; just started a thread for quality bikes.

VRC never recovered from pedestrianisation

I just don’t know what that means: I suspect you are confusing the particular (this is just a single thread) with the general (the goings on at VRC).

 

[Tad]

I would like to submit this pic as consideration for Retrobike of distinction status.

The bloke with the dodgy beard is Joe Breeze and the bike is Breezer #1just after winning Repack in 1977.

(shamelessly lifted from this thread: http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 2A&start=0)

Yes, the saddle is at a funny angle, yes it looks like a road frame with some extra bits brazed on. It probably doesn't handle or stop anywhere near as well as stuff we ride. It probably has a multitude of other flaws ("idiosyncracies" or "character" if you will) in its design, but, I nevertheless feel it worthy of Retrobike of distinction status. If it wasn't for the early pioneers I wouldn't have mountainbiking as a hobby. If it wasn't for their experimentation, discovering what was shite and what worked then taking this in to consideration in the next iteration of the bikes they built in their workshops we wouldn't have all this stuff to argue about.

I'd be interested to know what the tyre size was. Are they the same 26" we all know and love today?

 

[doctor-bond]

Silver braze or silver solder has a much lower menting point than bronze braze

Cheers 'fixies: I'm assuming that it is an advantage to use lower temps so that you don't mess with the properties of the tubing? Or is it just easier to avoid the higher temps?

I read somewhere that a brazed lug works by capillary action: which I think means that the surface tension of the molten metal makes sure it finds its way all around the thin gap of the joint. Is that right?