Raleigh losses.

[Cloverleaf]

A propos Mavic @Cloverleaf
https://www.bourrelier-group.com/nosactivites/industrie/

At least people at Mavic now know who is behind them. While all sad, I don't think Mavic can be thrown in a bigger bath with Raleigh,

The Raleigh saga is sadly, I think, going like many. It is the brand name that's still got value, but the output and how it corresponds to todays want's and needs is sadly on a decline. You could add umpteen to the list in the same basket here - from Bianchi to Massi. Add Shimano to the list too.

Personally, I think the entire bike industry from top to bottom needed a real overdue wake-up call.

The industry rested on daft laurels via competitive cycling for too long IMHO and hardly gave a hoot for people "just riding".

Cheers for the link. Hopefully they stay around and give the company some stability.

I agree on the state of the industry, but I also don't think it's the only one that needs a good shake up. I mean how many different crappy crossover quasi-SUV's does each manufacturer have, and how many 5dr versions of a 4dr version of a 3dr car do you need (I'm looking at you BMW/Merc/Audi)?

One thing in the bike industry is that those who take part in one niche tend to ignore the other niches and think them to be superflous. I couldn't give you a single short travel full sus on the current market because it's not something that interests me, and those only interested in the lighter end of the spectrum would say the same for the bigger stuff that I ride, but that isn't to say they don't have value. What I have an issue with is that lots of manufacturers have been changing designs for the sake of it for years and calling it evolution, which then gets lauded by the media (most of whom just aren't that good and love the gravy train of free holidays), forcing the other brands to change to keep up. Some brands really take the piss with pricing too which in the days of cheap credit has led to everyone buying the highest spec because over three years of free tick the monthly difference in cost is naff all. You also only need so many different stem manufacturers etc, but then with the likes of Shimano you need at least one genuine competitor to SRAM. That said I don't know what's happened to Shimano in the last few years, they really seem to have missed the direction MTB's been going in for a good few years.

My current big bugbear is the Fox X2 fork damper, which apparently Pinkbike just gave an award to. There is zero performance difference between them unless you're a very light rider, and as someone who has always tuned dampers in everything, I would say that there is zero performance benefit in this damper over a 2006 Fox 40 RC2 - at the end of the day it's a damper, and for a good damper you need oil flow (the more the better), a piston that gives the damping curve you want (linear/digressive etc) and some shims to control that at different damper forces/speeds. I know people talking about upgrading from last years 38 to this years. What is the point? If the older one isn't doing what you want then tune it, don't assume the new one will make any difference.

 

[benjabbi]

Fashion and having the latest and greatest. I gave up chasing all that 6-7 years ago but was definitely caught in the trap before. Somewhere along the line I realised that generally, the limiting factor is me, not the bike I'm on.

 

[Woz]

Getting a bit drunk now, but since I'm not at the Inn, I need to be much betterer and be somewhat contributive with meaningful content.

Let's start here:

Now go here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_Grimaldi

A man with big control / influence / money concerning bicycle culture, industry over many European brands.

In short, at the peak, ram it out. Bicycle fashion. I went to the shop to watch the Paris - Roubaix on TV and drink Peroni and be with some mates.

A really nice sort of top-class bike friendly cafe feel in a really top-class 'hood. A good day out with other cycling nerds.

I met Salvatore when he tried to flog me a Celeste Green Bianchi at the swanky shop. I told him I am not at all interested in buying it, could do much better for much less, and besides I also explained I'm not into modern bikes but willing to learn and admire, and the real interesting stuff is the vintage stuff you have hanging up, except for the green stuff which I hate. Actually working on and learning vintage stuff is where I am at.

The man is a bit taken back. I show him my dirty finger nails and point to my filthy commuter 1994 Miyata MTB locked outside at the lamp post how I got to this place. I said I'm not here to buy a bike nor have your staff work on my bike, but to be in a cycling Cafe and drink. He pulls me to a corner, rather than booting the mechanics from the pristine new workshop tarting up brand new bikes but engages and goes down an odd but serious Q and A session. The man wanted to know. I explained out right what I thought.

I also told him amongst other things I admired his boldness. To plonk a bike shop opposite Prada in a capital city. Fashion forever.

Eitherway, I got a nice free beer from / for my troubles just prior to the finish of the PRB, and would go back from time to time with no hard sell nor hassle from anyone.

My point is that these good times are over, and there is going to be some serious serious rationalisation in the industry from the top. They have got to adapt. They are / can be good at it. I'm pretty sure the top guys already have a list of which brands to drop and lay off people that essentially select products from overseas catalogues.

 

[legrandefromage]

Patriotism? Why?

What's the point in that? I gain nothing from 'buying Bri'ish,' my consumerism is multi national . And my 'image' - that was once described as bearded hipster or sk8nny jeaned twat. I'll take that. Often just being noticed is a win some days.

Patriotism... nationalism?

If you're buying mercedes, you get French engines and technology, VW? German, right? Eastern Europe engines, Spanish wiring, etc etc. if you decide British is for you, you get Indian funded unreliability, ooh, let's go for Aston Martin, they're British. Sure as long as you don't mind Ford electronics hiding in there. And those poor Americans, jeep, thats 'Murica right there, silly billy, they're driving fiat 500!

Raleigh is an anachronism, like Rover, it's a name that belongs to a tine past and the generation that remembers these brand names is rapidly becoming irrelevant. The yooof don't care or won't care.

The kidz are on carerras

 

[Cloverleaf]

Patriotism? Why?

What's the point in that? I gain nothing from 'buying Bri'ish,' my consumerism is multi national . And my 'image' - that was once described as bearded hipster or sk8nny jeaned twat. I'll take that. Often just being noticed is a win some days.

Patriotism... nationalism?

If you're buying mercedes, you get French engines and technology, VW? German, right? Eastern Europe engines, Spanish wiring, etc etc. if you decide British is for you, you get Indian funded unreliability, ooh, let's go for Aston Martin, they're British. Sure as long as you don't mind Ford electronics hiding in there. And those poor Americans, jeep, thats 'Murica right there, silly billy, they're driving fiat 500!

Raleigh is an anachronism, like Rover, it's a name that belongs to a tine past and the generation that remembers these brand names is rapidly becoming irrelevant. The yooof don't care or won't care.

The kidz are on carerras

Why? Because the same people bemoaning the 'state of the country' and that 'we don't make anything any more' are the same ones buying all the Chinese rubbish off amazon and eBay, and driving around in a car made elsewhere, on an American or whatever bike, wearing clothes made in a sweatshop owned by a billionaire, all because they want new stuff all the time and would rather buy lots of cheap rubbish than fewer items of quality that cost more. You can't complain about things like that if you don't actually support British manufacturing, which supports jobs in Britain, gives prosperity to people who actually reside here, and keeps (hopefully) more of the income and profit within Britiain so that it helps our country rather than another one. That's why. I am pro-EU btw, not a nationalist (in either EU or Scottish sense), but I also believe that you have to support the businesses which actually improve the things around you. Of course that's virtually impossible to do these days as even most 'British' companies are owned by foreign investment groups, but at least Rover back in the day actually made a lot of cars here, even if bits were bought in from elsewhere.

Why was Rover an anachronism? Because you didn't like the cars they made? Their MG stuff was brilliant, and quite amazing considering the budget they had to work with to drag old Honda tech into the 21st century. Or was it that older generations tended to buy them? In which case was it you were concerned about being lumped into that group? 'Ooh, I like old bikes but I think a brand is old fashioned'. Now that's irony. Saying a generation is becoming irrelevant is spectacularly obnoxious. Raleigh is slightly different in that their bikes were predominantly made offshore for a long period of time (were they even assembled here?), but it was still a British option that employed a good number of people here.

 

[bikeworkshop]

 

[paton]

 

[sjcprojects]

I think it's worth noting that the fortunes of Raleigh closely follows the same trajectory as two other large previous market-leaders – Peugeot and Schwinn – so it's not like this is a uniquely British failure. All three companies were by a long way the biggest manufacturers of bikes in their own home countries for at least half a century, and in the case of Raleigh and Peugeot, with strong sales in other markets, too.

All were showing signs of struggling from the mid 80s onwards and by the late 90s they were either sold off to become part of a bigger conglomerate, or essentially only existed as a name to be put on a product. I think the decline of all three is essentially the story of globalisation from the early 80s to now.

 

[LondonClassic]

With each person of a certain age who snuffs the lid (say anybody over 45) the brand name of Raleigh surely dimishes in lustre. In 20 or 30 years nobody alive will give a toss about Burners, Choppers or any other Raleigh bike - it won't mean anything to them in the same way Humber, Hillman, Coventry Eagle or Rudge don't carry any weight now.

 

[highlandsflyer]

With each person of a certain age who snuffs the lid (say anybody over 45) the brand name of Raleigh surely dimishes in lustre. In 20 or 30 years nobody alive will give a toss about Burners, Choppers or any other Raleigh bike - it won't mean anything to them in the same way Humber, Hillman, Coventry Eagle or Rudge don't carry any weight now.

Rather depends on what happens next. Cycling is going nowhere. There is a level playing field for any established company to innovate and prosper.