PSA - Replica 1-1/8" Chris King headsets

[d8mok]

Without wishing this thread to descend into the same state as the previous one, I think there is a vast difference between a reproduction of something which is no longer manufactured or where the manufacturer doesn't even exist, and rip off of something which is still for sale; this headset is the latter. The latter is illegal while the first one only bothers people who wish to gatekeep the fact some stuff is rare and are worried they're going to lose out on value for their own stash of rare parts. C

I'll happily admit that I have looked for the link for these fakes as while I don't wish to support China, and I don't agree with things being passed off as something they're not, I equally have zero interest in paying for a genuine CK headset on a bike I'm never going to ride, and I certainly wouldn't pass it off to someone else as genuine (or even sell it). Is that a moral contradiction? Yep.

Both are fake. Not produced by the company who originally made them , or under license from them.

People try to justify it by the rarity factor but that’s what makes this hobby fun. If every item was reproduced then it would hurt the hobby and take all the hunt away from it. Totally different if the same company starts doing its own reissue stuff - Panaracer being the obvious one.

There are lots of nice cheaper headsets available to suit all budgets. No need to try to look the part with a fake CK when a real FSA can be had for £20. Like wearing a fake Rolex- you ain’t fooling anyone apart from yourself.

Forums that suffer badly from fakes or reproduction in their hobby usually don’t even allow any discussion regarding them.

 

[Cloverleaf]

That's how you enjoy the 'hobby'. Personally I don't really care whether it's genuine or not on the old bikes I've been building as I couldn't care less about the 'chase', I've got far better things to be doing with my life than autistically hunting down a part which has the correct batch number on it or indeed any other random marker of uniqueness. Bits that are my own and I've had from new I care about but the rest of it is all inconsequential; it's just old stuff that was originally someone else's, that has little story of any meaning to me, and is ultimately something bolted onto other things to remind me of bikes I've had in the past.

Unless a particular component was ridden by a specific rider to a World Cup win or something it's all just bits of metal with varying amounts of paint and anodising on them at the end of the day. Lots of people build replicas of old bikes. Do we start saying they're not real and shouldn't be allowed? When it comes to the replica King headsets I'd consider one because I simply have no need for a real King on the old builds other than visual, otherwise I may as well just stick a random used FSA on it. I can't see the point in spending lots of money on a high precision component for a bike that's hung on a wall, the money is better spent on something I'll actually use. On the real bike I wouldn't bother with a King either TBH, there's better stuff out there for half the money, especially on modern bikes which are mostly drop in bearings, I'd rather put the money into stuff that can actually improve performance.

I'd say that you in particular on here seem to have a very black and white approach to this, more so than most, and really push for the talk/discussion/sale of anything replica to be banned as though you're personally affected. I certainly can't see how you or anyone else 'suffers' in this regard with the likes of replica/copy Syncros posts or parts for example. If you want to buy a genuine over a replica part then go for it, nobody is going to stop you.

 

[d8mok]

Explaining to someone who buys fake items - why they shouldn’t buy fake items is literally a waste of time unfortunately.

Fakes are around in so many walks of life and the people who own them buy them for one reason alone. To have the image of the branded items but without the cost. I’d personally just buy a cheaper brand or unbranded.

The time taken to buy an authentic CK headset would be less than buying a fake from ali express. The ONLY reason to buy a fake is price.

I don’t personally suffer from fake bike parts. But someone will. Whether that be the owners of the legitimate business/brand or the small child who works for pennies making it- or even the person along the line who the money affects as it’s widely known that fakes fund many terrible things.

If you owned a business where fake items made your life harder you may feel differently.

 

[Canuk]

I guess the whole issue of to fake or not to fake comes down to (as previously said) whether it's still in production, and whether someone's legitimate business/IP is being harmed by that fake.

I know someone who works for North Face at quiye a high EU marketing level, and they pretty much turn a blind eye to fakes as the more people touting the logo, the better for the brand. Obviously nothing of any real significant jeopardy is faked (like down sleeping bags or arctic all weather suits), so it's mostly Wannabee teenagers and the likes buying the stuff. No safety issues are compromised by cheap puffer jackets, except maybe there not as warm as you expected!

If fake parts are genuinely filling a need, where the manufacturer is no longer in business, realistically I've no problem with it. As long as the parts of a standard that does not endanger life or limb...

 

[d8mok]

Syncros still exist ….. as do CK.


I’m surprised at North Face turning a blind eye. Surely someone wearing a lesser quality fake damaged the brand ?

Issue is also that these fakes find there way onto the open second hand market and people get ripped off. I’m sure many members on here would be the first to complain if they paid for a genuine part only to find out it’s not.

 

[Canuk]

Syncros still exist ….. as do CK.


I’m surprised at North Face turning a blind eye. Surely someone wearing a lesser quality fake damaged the brand ?

Issue is also that these fakes find there way onto the open second hand market and people get ripped off. I’m sure many members on here would be the first to complain if they paid for a genuine part only to find out it’s not.

The fakes I've seen are quite poor. They're easily distinguishable to anyone who knows the brand. To a fourteen year old wishing to impress at school, I can see the appeal. I wouldn't buy one myself, but I'm not the target market!

As for turning a blind eye, I've seen online there are entire towns in China dedicated to producing this stuff, so tens of thousands of units are making their way into AliExpress and eBay each week. It's a probably a tide to fierce to stem, or even try to police.

Mostly it s the puffer jacket and the Denali jacket I've seen faked. But as North Face are reissuing a 1990s Denali jacket at an eye watering £200, you can kinda see where the fakers inspiration comes from .

 

[geddy1972]

That's how you enjoy the 'hobby'. Personally I don't really care whether it's genuine or not on the old bikes I've been building as I couldn't care less about the 'chase', I've got far better things to be doing with my life than autistically hunting down a part which has the correct batch number on it or indeed any other random marker of uniqueness. Bits that are my own and I've had from new I care about but the rest of it is all inconsequential; it's just old stuff that was originally someone else's, that has little story of any meaning to me, and is ultimately something bolted onto other things to remind me of bikes I've had in the past.

Unless a particular component was ridden by a specific rider to a World Cup win or something it's all just bits of metal with varying amounts of paint and anodising on them at the end of the day. Lots of people build replicas of old bikes. Do we start saying they're not real and shouldn't be allowed? When it comes to the replica King headsets I'd consider one because I simply have no need for a real King on the old builds other than visual, otherwise I may as well just stick a random used FSA on it. I can't see the point in spending lots of money on a high precision component for a bike that's hung on a wall, the money is better spent on something I'll actually use. On the real bike I wouldn't bother with a King either TBH, there's better stuff out there for half the money, especially on modern bikes which are mostly drop in bearings, I'd rather put the money into stuff that can actually improve performance.

I'd say that you in particular on here seem to have a very black and white approach to this, more so than most, and really push for the talk/discussion/sale of anything replica to be banned as though you're personally affected. I certainly can't see how you or anyone else 'suffers' in this regard with the likes of replica/copy Syncros posts or parts for example. If you want to buy a genuine over a replica part then go for it, nobody is going to stop you.

totally agree with ever word.

 

[bikeworkshop]

I spoke with hope about the cheap aliexpress "copies", they were resigned to it, said the quality spoke for itself.

The issue would be for genuine owners wanting to sell their parts into a market satiated with fakes.

Rickenbacker kept the fakes at bay for years

 

[geddy1972]

I spoke with hope about the cheap aliexpress "copies", they were resigned to it, said the quality spoke for itself.

The issue would be for genuine owners wanting to sell their parts into a market satiated with fakes.

Rickenbacker kept the fakes at bay for years

just shows i guess that people who buy fakes know that the quality wont be as good and just buy it for the image and to maybe fool people they have the real deal item/part.

maybe people do it because the price of genuine parts such as hope are so overpriced that only sponsored people and people with too much money to burn can afford them.

 

[Canuk]

I spoke with hope about the cheap aliexpress "copies", they were resigned to it, said the quality spoke for itself.

The issue would be for genuine owners wanting to sell their parts into a market satiated with fakes.

Rickenbacker kept the fakes at bay for years

The fake Colnago C64s were extremely convincing (I nearly bought one second hand) but I wouldn't put hard cash down for it. You literally have no idea what you're buying. If all you are interested in is something that 'looks' like a flash Colnago then fair play. Colnago are asking nearly five grand for their C68 bare frame.

You can see why the fakers would be interested in copying that, and you could argue also that by pricing themselves so exclusive, they've kinda got it coming....