Profiteering
- Thread starter FMJ
- Start date
"Hypocrisy".....would this qualify?
Nickle and dime someone for a frame/fork......fork was the value in the deal.
Receive package without a word of thanks/"it arrived just fine"...etc
Pull frame out of box, immediately take pics (with 'custom' dropout protector from me....
)
Post frame ONLY for BIN on ebay for 60% MORE than you paid for the frame/fork......sigh.
Yes, I did sell it for what I did....nobody put a gun to my head.
Being a noobie here though, thought keeping it in the 'community' would be the good thing to do.
Honestly, felt a bit burned, but live and learn.....
Nickle and dime someone for a frame/fork......fork was the value in the deal.
Receive package without a word of thanks/"it arrived just fine"...etc
Pull frame out of box, immediately take pics (with 'custom' dropout protector from me....
)Post frame ONLY for BIN on ebay for 60% MORE than you paid for the frame/fork......sigh.
Yes, I did sell it for what I did....nobody put a gun to my head.
Being a noobie here though, thought keeping it in the 'community' would be the good thing to do.
Honestly, felt a bit burned, but live and learn.....
Profiteering is the making of profit through unethical terms. What is deemed unethical is subjective. At a simple level it implies doing something that harms another financially.
Hypocrisy is the holding of beliefs as morally right, having already entered into action that is the exact opposite of those beliefs.
I have stated no opinion on profiteering. I cannot be a hypocrite Mike.
Since I have been dragged into this wrongly, now twice (by two people that know each other off the forum), and not by my choice I have put into a position of defence.
I have no problem with profiteering because IMO what we are talking about here is something many of us do on a semi-regular basis. We are not talking about wartime profiteering or some other dreadful form. We are talking about the absolute lowest level of profiteering.
Does any of this sound familiar?
- you see something on eBay, Craigslist, Pink Bike, or any online forum for cheap, snipe it and either resell it or trade it for profit/things of greater value. You have gained from this enterprise and there is a hurt party - the original seller (aware or not).
- you see a bike on eBay, Craigslist, Pink Bike, or any online forum for cheap, snipe it. You disassemble it and either resell the components (and keep what you want) or trade parts for profit/things of greater value. You have gained from this enterprise and there is a hurt party - the original seller (aware or not).
- you walk into a store. In their bargain bin, or buried in the basement you find product of extreme value. You buy this product for vastly less than its actual value, sometimes even lowballing them, and either resell it or trade it for profit/things of greater value. You have gained from this enterprise and there is a hurt party - the original seller (aware or not).
In all these instances there is advantage being taken. You are not telling the original seller what the value of their goods are. You are using your knowledge to profiteer. You are flipping, and there is an element of coercion in any flip.
Now ... Is this "really" wrong?
In a world where I can tell you the approximate value of almost any product with 5 minutes of research or less does a seller have an excuse for not knowing? I think no. I do all of the above to support the costs of my hobby. I profiteer in this sense. I would argue many (most?) people on the forum, and in particular, this thread do the same with varying frequencies.
In this RetroBike profiteering "poop on" a few seem to be attacking the person that gets offered a discount on something by the sellers choice on retrobike and than the buyer flips it here or elsewhere. That's not a great, but ...
Is the seller making $$$ on the transaction? How much?
Are you selling a part you got for $10 for $100 than complaining when it's sold for $125?
How did you acquire the item?
Were your hands clean of profiteering? Who was he biggest profiteer in the transaction?
*Your answer may be an indication of how rose-coloured your glasses are.
Now, to my knowledge/memory I have not flipped anything I have got off RetroBike. Frankly, this is not the place to make $$$. The profit margins are too low to make it worthwhile. Buying something for $100 and flipping it for $120-150 at face value is a waste of time to me. There are easier ways to make $50. If RB folk have traded with me or sold me stuff you can find it on my bikes ... This site is where I come to buy build specific things. Things I buy using $$$ I made from flipping parts.
As for Mike E.'s story of woe.
Here's another version with the missing parts ...
Guy sees Brodie Expresso for sale online on Kijiji/Craigslist on the west coast of Canada.
Guy drives out to get this bike ... Pays $??? (I've actually been told the ???, but I won't share it because it's hearsay).
Guy posts bike on RB for all to see:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=293292
Apparently the "newbie" seems to know more than he says. Heck he goes to the local Brodie show and shine! He's seen more Brodies than most and has bought and sold a ton on pinkbike.
Guy decides he no longer wants frame set.
Guy posts frame set on PinkBike (not here) for sale. For $550-600+. Hmmmm .... I wonder how the original seller would feel about that if they knew? Profiteer?
It sits ... It sits ... It sits. Many weeks pass. No ones buys at that price. 100s view it. No takers.
Buyer (me) offers to buy fork. Seller refuses.
It sits.
Guy contacts buyer to see if buyer is he's still interested. Yes, he contacted me (Aug 6th) wanting to sell. Buyer buys frame set for slightly less than the asking price ($575 shipped). There are no other suitors. This isn't about keeping it in the "community" ... I was the only willing buyer at your price!
Buyer gets frame set. Isn't totally excited to find the frame has undisclosed small dents, but raises no issue. Happy to have the fork. I guess I should have thanked you for the no charge dents.
Buyer try's to sell and swap the frame locally. No luck. After a few weeks it goes up on eBay. I didn't want the frame ... That was clear from the start.
The buyer is very very lucky on eBay. Sells frame for profit after a couple months. The fork is on the wall. The profit is in another retrobike member's pocket. I think I bought cranks for my Yo Eddy with it.
Considerations: Did you make $$$ or acquire "free" parts through our transaction Mike? How much are we talking? You profited as well and you did that because you first acquired an undervalued product from the original seller whom was ignorant of its actual value and you sold part of it to me for profit.
You flipped, than you got flipped.
Revisit Hypocrisy.
Now a new term for this situation: "Profitearing" - flipping something for decent profit than crying foul when someone flips it again for more.
Hypocrisy is the holding of beliefs as morally right, having already entered into action that is the exact opposite of those beliefs.
I have stated no opinion on profiteering. I cannot be a hypocrite Mike.
Since I have been dragged into this wrongly, now twice (by two people that know each other off the forum), and not by my choice I have put into a position of defence.
I have no problem with profiteering because IMO what we are talking about here is something many of us do on a semi-regular basis. We are not talking about wartime profiteering or some other dreadful form. We are talking about the absolute lowest level of profiteering.
Does any of this sound familiar?
- you see something on eBay, Craigslist, Pink Bike, or any online forum for cheap, snipe it and either resell it or trade it for profit/things of greater value. You have gained from this enterprise and there is a hurt party - the original seller (aware or not).
- you see a bike on eBay, Craigslist, Pink Bike, or any online forum for cheap, snipe it. You disassemble it and either resell the components (and keep what you want) or trade parts for profit/things of greater value. You have gained from this enterprise and there is a hurt party - the original seller (aware or not).
- you walk into a store. In their bargain bin, or buried in the basement you find product of extreme value. You buy this product for vastly less than its actual value, sometimes even lowballing them, and either resell it or trade it for profit/things of greater value. You have gained from this enterprise and there is a hurt party - the original seller (aware or not).
In all these instances there is advantage being taken. You are not telling the original seller what the value of their goods are. You are using your knowledge to profiteer. You are flipping, and there is an element of coercion in any flip.
Now ... Is this "really" wrong?
In a world where I can tell you the approximate value of almost any product with 5 minutes of research or less does a seller have an excuse for not knowing? I think no. I do all of the above to support the costs of my hobby. I profiteer in this sense. I would argue many (most?) people on the forum, and in particular, this thread do the same with varying frequencies.
In this RetroBike profiteering "poop on" a few seem to be attacking the person that gets offered a discount on something by the sellers choice on retrobike and than the buyer flips it here or elsewhere. That's not a great, but ...
Is the seller making $$$ on the transaction? How much?
Are you selling a part you got for $10 for $100 than complaining when it's sold for $125?
How did you acquire the item?
Were your hands clean of profiteering? Who was he biggest profiteer in the transaction?
*Your answer may be an indication of how rose-coloured your glasses are.
Now, to my knowledge/memory I have not flipped anything I have got off RetroBike. Frankly, this is not the place to make $$$. The profit margins are too low to make it worthwhile. Buying something for $100 and flipping it for $120-150 at face value is a waste of time to me. There are easier ways to make $50. If RB folk have traded with me or sold me stuff you can find it on my bikes ... This site is where I come to buy build specific things. Things I buy using $$$ I made from flipping parts.
As for Mike E.'s story of woe.
Here's another version with the missing parts ...
Guy sees Brodie Expresso for sale online on Kijiji/Craigslist on the west coast of Canada.
Guy drives out to get this bike ... Pays $??? (I've actually been told the ???, but I won't share it because it's hearsay).
Guy posts bike on RB for all to see:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=293292
Apparently the "newbie" seems to know more than he says. Heck he goes to the local Brodie show and shine! He's seen more Brodies than most and has bought and sold a ton on pinkbike.
Guy decides he no longer wants frame set.
Guy posts frame set on PinkBike (not here) for sale. For $550-600+. Hmmmm .... I wonder how the original seller would feel about that if they knew? Profiteer?
It sits ... It sits ... It sits. Many weeks pass. No ones buys at that price. 100s view it. No takers.
Buyer (me) offers to buy fork. Seller refuses.
It sits.
Guy contacts buyer to see if buyer is he's still interested. Yes, he contacted me (Aug 6th) wanting to sell. Buyer buys frame set for slightly less than the asking price ($575 shipped). There are no other suitors. This isn't about keeping it in the "community" ... I was the only willing buyer at your price!
Buyer gets frame set. Isn't totally excited to find the frame has undisclosed small dents, but raises no issue. Happy to have the fork. I guess I should have thanked you for the no charge dents.
Buyer try's to sell and swap the frame locally. No luck. After a few weeks it goes up on eBay. I didn't want the frame ... That was clear from the start.
The buyer is very very lucky on eBay. Sells frame for profit after a couple months. The fork is on the wall. The profit is in another retrobike member's pocket. I think I bought cranks for my Yo Eddy with it.
Considerations: Did you make $$$ or acquire "free" parts through our transaction Mike? How much are we talking? You profited as well and you did that because you first acquired an undervalued product from the original seller whom was ignorant of its actual value and you sold part of it to me for profit.
You flipped, than you got flipped.
Revisit Hypocrisy.
Now a new term for this situation: "Profitearing" - flipping something for decent profit than crying foul when someone flips it again for more.
Looks to be more of an issue between you Canadian guy's than there is else where...
maybe you should all be more thankfull for all the awesome parts you guy's have better access to than most of us over the pond/Europe.
Most of us would love to buy the parts you guy's seem to have in great quantity but buying and postage plus import tax etc makes it super expensive.
Be lucky for the stuff you have, if you sell for a price your happy with,dont get upset if the next person sells it on and makes a profit, so be it, that's life.
Im just happy if anybody likes my stuff enough to buy it full stop
Nobody can afford to lose money these days, if you brake even that's good, if you make a little extra that's great.
BUT............
If you get given part/s for Karma and only ask for the cost of postage be covered, have the dam decency to pay the postage!
When the sender has trusted you to pay it (£10) at a later date, don't make up some story about being skint and then a day or so later let slip you payed £500+ for a broken carbon fibre bike.........
Oh and moan one of the FREE parts was not as good as you wanted :roll:
maybe you should all be more thankfull for all the awesome parts you guy's have better access to than most of us over the pond/Europe.
Most of us would love to buy the parts you guy's seem to have in great quantity but buying and postage plus import tax etc makes it super expensive.
Be lucky for the stuff you have, if you sell for a price your happy with,dont get upset if the next person sells it on and makes a profit, so be it, that's life.
Im just happy if anybody likes my stuff enough to buy it full stop
Nobody can afford to lose money these days, if you brake even that's good, if you make a little extra that's great.
BUT............
If you get given part/s for Karma and only ask for the cost of postage be covered, have the dam decency to pay the postage!
When the sender has trusted you to pay it (£10) at a later date, don't make up some story about being skint and then a day or so later let slip you payed £500+ for a broken carbon fibre bike.........
Oh and moan one of the FREE parts was not as good as you wanted :roll:
Skynet
Senior Retro Guru
Pretty much agree with that Niall. Straight sale then if you got a price you were happy with then that's it.It's then theirs to do with as they want, really don't see why anyone should have a problem with that. However for karma or special deals then that's different.
And yes you lot over there are lucky with the juicy stuff that just ends up costing too much to get here!
And yes you lot over there are lucky with the juicy stuff that just ends up costing too much to get here!
SouthCoastRetro
Gold Trader
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Now now guys, what's this all aboot eh?
