please help identify this old roadbike frame

[marczi]

I bought the frame of this bike about two years ago in some town in the hungarian countryside, the frame was pretty rusty, and i couldnt identify it. since then i have rebuild it completly, but the question about the origin of the frame is still bugging me... maybe you guys can help me out.

i have seen similar heart shaped stuff on the places where the tubes meet on f. moser bikes, but i'm not sure.

some more pics (not the best quality though):

http://picasaweb.google.com/kasnyik/Bringa#

 

[pigman]

the heart cut out in the lug is common. The lug came like that & is used by several builders. The name "Kubler" on the stem has something to do with Ferdi Kubler, a Swiss who won the 1950 tour. Whether its a swiss bike or a hungarian who knows?

 

[fiks]

I think you can't really ID a frame from this lug, as many many builders used lugs with heart shaped cut outs already put in by the lug manufacturer.

That looks like a 3ttt stem.

 

[Old Ned]

I echo the lug being a common standard design (Prugnat possibly?).

Any chance of a picture of the whole frame? Possibly more chance of identification from that.

 

[marczi]

thanks for the answers. so the mystery continues unresolved. what do you think, what are those characteristics which can help in identifing a frame?

here is a pic of the whole thing (zoom in on the upper right):

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YoexVZgb0P-nX_jZC1OERg?feat=directlink

there is an id number on the bottom:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/wMfIWafDl-jEORZbxfWkxg?feat=directlink

 

[Old Ned]

Looking at the 'fluted' tops to the seat stays I would say it could possibly be an Italian build as many Italian builders used this style. The brazed on cable guides on top of the bottom bracket point to a 70's build date, if it were 60's (going by the frame number?) it probably wouldn't have any braze-ons at all.

Otherwise, can't help any more, sorry.