Orange Clockwork? Prestige? Frame weight and feature help

[chris-hodge]

I have a couple of what I thought were both Orange clockwork frames
was just about to order decals so i can take one to the painters but now i am not so sure they are both clockworks
frame A is
1992 manaufactured
original colour - satin black i think
pretty good condition, no damage but needs fresh paint
has rack and mudguard mounts
has the none wishbone style of canti cable stop
bottom pull front derailleur cable tunnel
individual braze on cable guides
Frame weight is 2268g

frame B is
1993 manufactured
original colour - orange white fade (paint evidence in lots of places)
pretty bad condition, salvageable for sure needs a little brazing and desperate for paint
additional gusset paint, apparently to stiffen front end
reputidly top 3 finisher in nationals back in the day
doesnt have rack mounts (difficult to tell if these have perhaps been removed)
has the none wishbone style of canti cable stop
top of bottom mount front derailleur cable stop and pulley mount
block cable guide braze ons on top tube
frame weight is 2056g

So the question i have is....could frame B perhaps be a Prestige

the only difference i can detect in the tubes is the headtube is different between the 2 frames
Frame A headtube is a larger external diameter 34mm with thin paint
Frame B headtube is approx 33.2mm diameter which is in line with tange tubing but could be infinity or prestige

i have really searched hard for frame weights and identifiers to no avail
i understand that there is evidence to suggest that prestige frames always had the wishbone canti cable stop
if that is the case
do i just have a fancy clockwork and a less fancy one

ive decided to prioritise the lighter one as i am little more attached to it
but
i need to know what decals to get

please help me obi-won your my only hope......sorry wrong forum

thanks in advance

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

Hi Chris.

I think they are both Clockwork's mate, with the 93 having been modified (removal of rack mounts, that head tube brace). The frame designs changed quite a bit between the 92 and 93 model years with the biggest one being the change to triple top tube cable routing rather than the front mech going down the down tube. Also, later in 1993 they changed from Tange Infinity tubes to their own Orange branded ones.

Easy way to tell a Prestige from a later (1991ish+) Clockwork is the rear canti mount. The Prestige always has one with a hole in, the later Clockworks being solid like yours.

 

[chris-hodge]

Re:

Thanks

That's what my research told me

It's the massive weight difference that throws me though
And it's the later frame which has tubing which matches range

 

[lensmansteve]

Ahoy, Chris.. I have an October '93 large size Clockwork. Frame weighs 2215 grams. I've read in the factory literature that they went on a gram-saving mission for '93, and the Clockwork Tange tubeset was replaced with an Orange custom set. So, not surprising that your frames show that difference.
My Clockwork is very springy- I don't give my bikes any punishing rough treatment, so that suits me fine- but I can imagine that for racing, that head tube gusset would have been useful..
Regards, Steve.

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

As Steve says above, the Clockwork was evolving and being made lighter all the time. Check out the weight of a 89 or 90 for comparison.

 

[chris-hodge]

Re:

Thanks for the frame weight
Mine is a may 1993 and weighs 2056 with a girder Tig welded on
So that would be earlier but lighter
Frame is also a large

Still inconclusive

 

[lensmansteve]

Hi again.. Are you sure your frame is large size? Mine measures about 20 1 /2" from the centre of the bb to the top of seat tube, and has a 5 1/2" head tube. Top tube is 23".
Anyway, all the best for the project..

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

They look like Orange sized 19" frames to me which would make them L. 14/15"S, 17"M, 19"L, 21"XL.

 

[lensmansteve]

My mistake- mine is actually an XL then.. That could certainly explain the weight difference between mine and Chris's '93 frames! I knew at a glance that the geometries were different.. ☺

 

[chris-hodge]

Re:

Thanks for the clarification

Would be really helpful to get some.prestige frame weights

I have no idea if they are normally a couple of hundred grams different or half a kilo etc.

Hopefully someone can add this