Oldest mountain bike in UK?

[PeterPerfect]

I need a bit o& help if possible. This Tony Oliver Bike came into the recycling workshop and we’ve little to no idea of its value. It’s Reynolds 531. its been “upgraded” by its previous owner but we’ve removed most of that and fitted new chain, cleaned up,hub, changed (and recreated cables) for the 5 speed (yes 5) sturmey archer hub. Any guidance appreciated

Always been sought after frames.

Very well made and had a good quality durable paint job as well.

 

[ferrus]

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[ferrus]

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[rwm1962]

Quote trimmed:

Tony Oliver:
I don't think there was resistance in the established trade, they say a new opportunity to make money. The press and niche trade were more cynical than showing resistance, after all it was quite easy to see these 'tanks' were basically crap. On the plus side, the niche feeders saw new goodies and for my world tour clientele, available globally. This was a win win.
Another 'new' aspect was that this new scene seemed to be fashion led, especially the garbage Shimano churned out under the banner of innovative. Over yet more ale, discussing these very things, the owner of Bicycle Times suggested we actually did something practical to see if these bikes were any good with respect to what they said-on-the-tin. So we went up (well most of) Kungsladen, a 500k footpath from central Sweden into arctic Lappland. And that was when I first started looking at every detail of what was required of my off-road bike.
The two frames I made were from a mix of racing and touring gauge (not oversize) tubes heat treated to 753 specs - not the newly to be announced Reynolds 753ATB set. Most Tour de France 753 frames of that day were actually made from heat treated Cr-Mo and NOT heat treated 531. Basically they were a drawn (not seem welded) variants of 501 but, of course Reynolds could never admit Cr-Mo made better 753 than Mn-Cr-Mo ! their whole existence was based on manganese based alloy tubes.
The bikes I made weighed in at 19lbs (complete with racks) yet had to carry 3 weeks’ worth of food, camping kit, winter clothing etc...... etc..... and not break.
I still have mine and I know the other on is still ridden on a regular basis.

The pictures of the bike I posted earlier is the one mentioned above belonging to the editor of the Bicycle Times. It was he who did the trip with Tony. He's was involved in the trade for decades, mainly B2B publications. His knowledge is pretty encyclopaedic. I'll point him to this tread.

 

[Burnham Boy Lumley]

Re:

An update on behalf of that BoyBurning

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=419809&hilit=evans

You mentioned Brian Staples .. I have his lady model which was kitted with the very first SXhs Orbit Commander hub/derailleur system, hand-built by him of course, a one-off which was for my wife ... a Media person in the bicycle sector. Brian kept the wheelbase nicely short, on the rear triangle you need to deflate the tyre to remove the wheel.
The gears came through the Delite Accessories company in Suffolk, probably from France seeing the Huret family factory originated there. Sachs was not yet (by then) known as SRAM, with their manufacturing in South Germany, at Schweinfurt. I visited both these establishments to see production operations.

 

[Burnham Boy Lumley]

I need a bit o& help if possible. This Tony Oliver Bike came into the recycling workshop and we’ve little to no idea of its value. It’s Reynolds 531. its been “upgraded” by its previous owner but we’ve removed most of that and fitted new chain, cleaned up,hub, changed (and recreated cables) for the 5 speed (yes 5) sturmey archer hub. Any guidance appreciated

Is this the really light ATB built in Wales in 1986 ??

 

[Burnham Boy Lumley]

Quote trimmed:


The pictures of the bike I posted earlier is the one mentioned above belonging to the editor of the Bicycle Times. It was he who did the trip with Tony. He's was involved in the trade for decades, mainly B2B publications. His knowledge is pretty encyclopaedic. I'll point him to this tread.

Yep, I,actually touched that very bike this afternoon... didn't say I rode it though, did I.
I was looking for something and had to move my dear mate's made ATB (which translates Arctic Touring Bicycle) I still have the Karrimor front pannier Kalaharis Tony and I used, if you see a photo of him holding a blue plastic mug when he was in Lappland, that is also in the garage! Have you Tony's book "Arctic Odyssey" ... it has cracking photos of bike riding in Padjelanta Wilderness and the Lofoton. We probably made the only ever Cesna flight with bikes using the float plane that skimmed off a lake somewhere near Vieta and dropped us on another, just a couple of days up the road from Narvik. It was a 104 miles hop that cost about £104, which means the Tony Oliver bikes became the fastest ever on water!! I wrote about I in my book, after all it was one hell of a birthday year treat for me, thanks to Tony.

 

[Burnham Boy Lumley]

Re: Re:


Sometimes, in order to make sense of the evidence you need to combine different sources of information.

On page nine of "The OffRoad Bicycle Book" by Tom Bogdanowicz, first published in 1987 it says: "A few frame builders experimented with mountain bike designs. Roberts Cycles built a frame in 1981 to the specification of an American customer...."

Whilst much more recently an article on the history of Roberts Cycles that was initially published in the Veteran Cycle Club magazine in 2015 it was subsequently uploaded and updated by Tom Bogdanowicz onto the London Cycling Campaign's website.
https://lcc.org.uk/articles/roberts-cycles

About halfway through the article it says:
"At Roberts the 1980s MTB initiative came from Jake Heilbron14, the manager of West Point Cycles in Vancouver and co- founder of Canada’s Rocky Mountain Bikes (where Derek Bailey of Roberts Cycles turned up), and Kona cycles. Heilbron was familiar with the heavyweight mountain bikes being used in California but wanted something lighter and sprightlier so he shipped a Californian style frame to Roberts, whom he knew through Cycle Imports of Maine, and asked them to make something similar. Chas recalls the challenge of setting up for wheels of a different dimension:– 26″ US cruiser wheels and tyres, as used on the converted Schwinns that served as the pre-mountainbike ‘clunkers’ in the mid-1970s. To deliver a lighter frame than then in use in California, Roberts opted for tandem tubing to ensure durability in off-road use. The frames were well received across the pond and Roberts made several for the US and Canadian markets."

Towards the end of the article is says:
"Roberts had built the first mountain bike in the UK..."
However, in reality they seem to have only made a frame, not a complete bike. Also, there was another UK frame-builder making mountain bike frames in 1981, Tony Oliver. But because we don't have specific dates from either frame-builder, we cannot say with any certainty, who was first.

I think some research on "first" may reveal the date of developments which engaged Dave Yates using what reputedly was the first set of tubing specifically for mountain bikes: Reynolds tubing out of Hay Hall. This was reported in an editorial feature for the magazine Bicycle Times.
Then: Out of Spain the very first mass produced and publicly marketed mountain bike came from the BH company .. they called it Sitting Bull. I saw the model being produced at the Basque factory when there with Brian Montgomery, who was their knternational marketing guy. BH made some very agile Trail bikes too. A champion bmx rider demonstrated their bikes by bunny hopping off the road and onto a full height halfback delivery waggon. Then back down again.

 

[Burnham Boy Lumley]

No, Apps never made it into the US MTB hall of fame though when the HoF was based in Crested Butte
they did add some pages telling the British side of the story including Apps and the Roughstuff Fellowship.

The US MTB HoF then moved to the Marin Museum of Bicycling so I nominated him there. The ruled that only bike makers that used tyres of 2 inches wide or greater could be nominated. They seem to have a problem with converting the 650x54mm tyres that Apps used on all his production bikes into inches. With that inept response I gave up.

The fundamental problem is that though Gary Fisher, Charlie Kelly & Joe Breeze all credit Apps as being the originator of the 700c wheel size for use on mountain bikes, very few others in the HoF community know about him. Several used Marin frame-builders used the 650b and 700c Hakkapeliitta tyres that Apps exported to California, but few knew where they came from. Ibis even named a bicycle after the tyres, The Hakkalugi arguably the first mass produced 'gravel grinder'? Also Bruce
Gordon had copies made which he sold and still sells as the Rock'n'Road tyres.

It is always interesting to take an old Apps bike along to a local MTB club ride. At first they politely take the piss, but then are surprised that they can't easily shake me off, no matter how difficult the terrain they ride. (Apart from long smooth up hills where the weight of the old bikes and the strength of the old knees take their toll) Once the ride went onto soft sand and I was the only rider who didn't have to get off and walk. Another time I got a round of applause after clearing a technical downhill course they had built. I think that they were expecting me to die in the attempt.

The tyres you mention: Nokia produced, looks like from the name. They did ice tyres, sorta studs inserted into the tread. The brand was from Finland, later called Nokian. They also did rubber footwear, using that stud system for shortie wellies.
Geoff, I recall, was freethinking and artistic, as anyone who saw his written signature would notice by the loopy flourishes as he penned it. Last time I met him was in The Borders, he kept his pet cat indoors for days as ground nesting birds had taken up residence at his cottage. True countryside style that....

 

[PeterPerfect]

Worthy of a bump…

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That's probably the rarest ATB to have ever been on here especially as it's 753. Very nice.