Old Judy XC vs Marzocchi Bomber Z4 Flylight

[winsorbeach]

Some may quibble with the "retroness" of my recent purchase: a 1998 Klein Attitude (identical model that Patriot66 just sold on here) with a Judy XC oil dampened/cartridge shock.

I don't know much about the Judys, but haven't exactly heard glowing reviews and I saw a Marzocchi Bomber Z4 Flylight air shock for sale for $125 so I jumped on it.

Just curious if anyone knows these shocks and has an opinion on whether this is an upgrade or fairly lateral move.

From what I've heard - the weight is about a push, both shocks are in good condition (the Judy has barely ever been ridden), but apparently the Marzocchi really performs beautifully... well beyond it's price tag. And I've also heard it is bullet proof as far as air shocks go so should not be a risky purchase.

Besides that... I'm in the dark and I guess only a physical test will tell the tale, but I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts, if you feel like commenting.

Thanks! -John

 

[sho220]

I'd take the Marzocchi over the Judy any day. You could always use the Judy until the cartridge spills its guts, which shouldn't take long, then switch over to the Marzocchi...

 

[winsorbeach]

Re:

haha. I almost feel sorry for the poor Judys... they get a lot of positive reviews, but they also get a lot of really negative reviews that sound exactly like yours.

I could always stick the Marzocchi on my Klein and the Judy on my girlfriends 15" Bontrager. The judy is a little lighter so that would be logical.

Do you recommend another shock besides the Marzocchi? At $125 it doesn't sound like it has a whole lot of quality company in the same price range. And it does sound like it is durable enough to still be worth buying after a decade of use on someone else's bike.

Another friend of mine told me to scrap the shock all together and buy a rigid fork, like an Independent Fabrications. I'd love to get a hold of a vintage Klein fork, but those are very hard to come by it seems.

I thought the Bonty Boys were nuts, but they got nothing on the Klein crew!

 

[sho220]

Re:

Judy's always feel dead to me thanks to the elastomers. I know there are coil spring conversions, but not sure if you can get replacement damper cartridges or not. The stockers are not known for their longevity. I think White Bros used to make aftermarket damper cartridges. Personal preference really. I've always loved the feel of Marzocchi's and they seem to last forever which is nice. And they look pretty spiffy too.

 

[winsorbeach]

That is a beauty! I've heard those Grove's are great. Which model/year Bomber is that?

And I was wondering too, since I can't seem to find a 1997 or 98 Klein tech manual online that specifies steering tube lengths, is there a rule of thumb for like a med/large roughly 18" mtb for a 5-9/5-10 person... for example I know of two 1-1/8 diameter Marzocchis for 26" wheels that would prob work perfectly, but have no clue if the first with 185 mm steering tube or second with 191 mm is the right size or even a bigger one with 210mm tube... though isn't it possible to cut the tube if it is too long or use spacers if its over by just a few mms?

Just wondering if there is a somewhat standard universal answer to this question given the above heights and your avg m/L bike size.

Thanks.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re:

The Judy problems are all the first Judy problems, unfortunately its stuck with them since
By 98 they had coil spring not mcu's
The dampers had improved and a quite solid and the fork even runs in a lubing bath.

The Z4 flylight is a nice fork, quite simple and while the damping adjustment isn't there iirc, which the Z3 had (I have the Z3 100 flylight version in my kitchen at the moment).
It'll be a good and since I've ridden both well mainly the superfly version of the bommer, I wouldn't say there was much between them, except my bomber is much lighter


You have both, try, tune and test both see which you like.
Keep them both serviced as its easy and they'll last.

 

[winsorbeach]

Re:

Fluffy Chicken, perhaps you can answer my question I posted above... about steering tube lengths/bike size... it's just above your post. thanks.

 

[sho220]

That is a beauty! I've heard those Grove's are great. Which model/year Bomber is that?

And I was wondering too, since I can't seem to find a 1997 or 98 Klein tech manual online that specifies steering tube lengths, is there a rule of thumb for like a med/large roughly 18" mtb for a 5-9/5-10 person... for example I know of two 1-1/8 diameter Marzocchis for 26" wheels that would prob work perfectly, but have no clue if the first with 185 mm steering tube or second with 191 mm is the right size or even a bigger one with 210mm tube... though isn't it possible to cut the tube if it is too long or use spacers if its over by just a few mms?

Just wondering if there is a somewhat standard universal answer to this question given the above heights and your avg m/L bike size.

Thanks.

Mine is a '98 Bomber Z2 Superfly. The steerer tube length is dictated by the length of the headtube, the stack height of the headset, and how much is needed to make a secure connection to the stem. When in doubt, get the longest you can and you can just cut it down or add spacers (if it's threadless). If it's threaded, you'll need to measure to make sure you have enough threaded portion. A nice thing about most of the Marzocchi's is that they have bolt on steerers. Makes it easy to get the right size. And you don't need to worry about getting Marzocchi specific steerers as RST steerers fit and are cheap and plentiful. Even for 1" headtubes.

 

[winsorbeach]

Re:

Thank you Sho220, that was an incredibly helpful reply. I haven't picked up the Klein yet, but will tomorrow and am pretty sure it's got a threadless headset on it, so it sounds like I really don't need to worry about the length of the steerer, just buy the best 1-1/8" Marzocchi 26"er I can find and if I need to bolt on another steerer I can. That is great news.

Tho Fluffy Chicken did stir up a little sympathy in me for the '98 Judy XC as it now sounds like an improved version of the problematic earlier editions.. and I think it's actually a little lighter than the Bomber Z4 flylight? Can that be true?

Anyway, my curiosity will no doubt get the better of me and I will buy a Marzocchi to judge the difference myself. I have a few other bikes so, I will find a home for the extra shock.

Thanks again for clearing this up for me. - J

This is almost as fun as my other addiction: turntables!

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re:

That Superfly is a 1999 as it's the only year it was made.
Also the first time the bomber became an air fork.

No idea on the weight of the 98 XC compared to the Z4 Flylight.

Not all, or even a lot of the Bombers had replaceable steerer's. Some (most in fact), like the Superfly have a combined crown/steerer*. These will still fit the other bombers though.
I'm specifically talking from '97 to early 00's as that all I know about, not the newer if any Bombers.

When you get the bike just measure the headtube length. Then add 30mm for a headset and 45mm for a stem. That will be the length I would aim for as a minimum.

E.g. headtube 130mm so steerer 205mm minimum.
That's playing it safe as headsets are often a touch less and stems often a bit less to.



*steerer's like the superfly are Aluminium and have machined crowns for light weight. Cheaper lower level ones are not and have steel steerer's and/or have Bolton replaceable steerer's. These weigh more of course.

Check out the archive for marzocchi tech docs and some info and also for rockshox catalogues and service guides if you want to familiarise yourself with them and the differences in the Z levels and years.

Oddly we have no catalogues for bombers yet.