Numpty question about Campagnolo shifters

[DrewSavage]

Hello - this is my first foray away from proper downtube-mounted gear levers so please forgive my ignorance...

I bought a secondhand pair of Campag Record brake lever/shifters on the ebay which are for a triple on the front and a 9-speed on the back.

I've since found a 10-speed long cage Campagnolo derailleur which would seem a much better idea with a triple than a short cage 9-speed one.

My question is, how do the shifters actually work? Is there some internal mechanism that limits the number of gears, or do they just continue shifting up or down until the cable tension tells them they can't any more?

Surely it's too much to hope that I could get all 10 gears out of that derailleur from shifters I bought for a 9-speed? But I thought it at least worth asking...

 

[BigFoz]

Re:

Not without intervention.

You can strip the levers down and swap the 9spd ratchet for 10 (You may need to have later model 9 spd levers, not sure). It's doable and cheap (ratchets are <£20) or you can send off to the official Campag service centre (Who appears on here every now and then) and they'll do the job (Last time I investigated was £25, but that was some time ago)

But then you won't get 10spd levers for £20-30, so this would still be a bargain.

 

[daccordimark]

If you're happy with 9 sprockets just leave the shifters alone and get a wheel with a 9 speed cassette.

If the difference between the outer and inner chain rings added to the difference between the biggest and and littlest sprockets isn't too big you can get away with a short rear mech. But seeing as you have the long mech and I've never noticed any difference in shift performance between Campag's long and short mechs you might as well use it.

Mark.

 

[agentorange]

Don't forget that in 2001 Campagnolo changed the geometry of their 9 speed rear derailleur. 9 & 10sp rear derailleurs made after 2001 will NOT work with pre-2001 Ergo levers unless you upgrade the internal Ergo Index Gear to a current 9 speed model. If you do upgrade, you will be rewarded with quicker and more precise shifting. 2001 to current, 9 speed rear derailleurs, can easily be upgraded to 10 speed by simply replacing the 9 speed pulley wheels with 10 speed ones.

Pre-2001 nine speed rear derailleurs have a "B" adjusting screw located on the derailleur hanger tab next to the frame hanger mounting bolt. The "B" adjusting screw butts against your frame's rear dropout and allows you to adjust the angle of the derailleur body. 2001 to current 9 and 10 speed rear derailleurs have the "B" adjusting screw located at the junction of the derailleur body and pulley wheel cage.

 

[BigFoz]

Re:

Agentorange, not sure that's right - I have an early '90s 7/8spd Record Rear Derailleur running with the later 9spd Record Carbon Ergos, and all 9 index perfectly. Or is it only the early 9 derailleurs / late 9 ergos that don't mesh?

 

[hamster]

Foz: you must be someone who keeps your setup clean and adjusted well. The cable pull per click did change as the leverage of the mech changed. 7/8/9 pre-2001 mechs all had the same leverage (sideways movement per mm of cable pull). See the CTC Shimergo pages for details on the cable pull per click etc.

There are people who claim that mixed Campag and Shimano 9 speed also works perfectly. The floating top jockey takes up a lot of the errors but it still gets tetchy with dirt and cable stretch etc. Pre-2001 9 speed is a doddle to set up and in my experience very, very rarely needs adjustment afterwards as the cable pull per click is so large it makes it very tolerant of friction in the cabling etc.

 

[DrewSavage]

Thank you! This raises further questions...

Graeme at the Campagnolo Service Centre says mine are the earlier type which *can* be converted to 10 speed, but it's two hours of a skilled machinists time so the labour for alone is £85.00, before they have supplied parts. carriage, re-assembly etc - and the lever ends up fragile as a result of the changes they need to make inside.

I've also realised that the levers are the earlier pre-1997 type while the Centaur rear mech looks like it may be later than that.

So does this mean the levers and derailleur are incompatible anyway?

 

[DrewSavage]

I should also say, far too far into this project, I realised that for a tourer, I'd probably have been better off getting Shimano stuff rather than Campagnolo. But as well as the rear derailleur, I've put a lot of time, effort and money into finding these levers, plus a Campagnolo triple chainset, bottom bracket and front derailleur.

But I have also acquired a 9 speed Shimano Deore XTR long reach derailleur - and the hubs I intend to build my wheels on are Shimano 600 Tricolor, because everyone tells me Campagnolo axles will bend if you're carrying heavy loads while touring. So my next stage - if I got the levers sorted, or decided to lump it and stick with 9 speed - was to work out conversion cassettes for Campagnolo spacing on a Shimano freehub.

Basically I'm at a metaphorical fork in the road and neither road seems an obvious or easy one to take...

 

[hamster]

This is complex. Have a look at the Shimergo pages on the CTC website.
If I remember right, 600 tricolor is 7 speed. Simplest is to run a 7 speed rear, although alternatively you could fit a Shimano 9 speed cassette and omit the largest sprocket and space (it fits perfectly!).
Then use the Shimano rear mech and use a hubbub clamping modification to correct the cable pull difference.

Campag cassettes are deeper than Shimano, so beware that while it is easy to use trick Marchisio sprockets on a Campag hub to get Shimano spacing, there isn't space to do it the other way round.

 

[DrewSavage]

Thank you - and I'm glad it's not just me!

The Shimergo pages are helpful although complex and I think I've kind of got my head around them - although if I've got it right it seems to focus around using Campy levers and Shimano dérailleurs whereas I was after using Campagnolo levers and derailleur with a Shimano hub...

I think I will have to be flexible here and just be prepared to get some different bits and sell on the ones I'd gathered together if necessary.

The idea of removing the largest sprocket may be a solution on a technical level but when part of this has been caused by my desire to be running a large first sprocket for touring loads, I'm not sure it's the best solution...

I wish I knew what was.