Harryburgundy
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What does a miniature of 10yo Tomintoul get me
NOS Mustang frame £110 start
- Thread starter john
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What does a miniature of 10yo Tomintoul get me
pete_mcc":1p0t7tws said:
Nice dog shit analogy. I'd also happily chip in for the no holds barred version.
As for bikes like this on here? Not my taste really either. However I chose to 'out' this auction as a point of interest and to be honest amusement. Successful on both counts I'd say. An example of something thinking that because this is old it must be retro and of value? Clearly.
pete_mcc":1p0t7tws said:
Interesting comment and perhaps an indicator as to why Raleigh never really 'had it' when it cames to the image concious world of the early 90s mtb scene. Alongside these gas pipe mtb-a-likes such as the Mustang Raleigh also made some fairly respectable Reynolds tubed mtbs (see my ego-centric first page post). However for every decent Raleigh mtb there were probably 40 Mustangs. White dog shit by association? An image tarnished? Perhaps. Interestingly though this is what Raleigh always did, try to hit every or most market segments. I don't really recall any of the other big manufactureres (certainly not those sponsering big race teams) trying to hit this 'tourney' segment, most normally stopped around 100GS. Such a strategy had worked for them on the road and to an extent BMX before though.
Don't worry John, I took your :shock: as a sign that you weren't outing this as anything other than amusement! I am a fan of other raleighs but I just feel those shockers did more harm than good. Even their bad road bikes such as the Winner were miles above this in quality
Now for the drinks... I may have to hold off until after the watershed, surfice to say I have an absolute hatred of old low end bikes, even more so when they are restored or rebuilt to their former 'glory'. Yes I rode these as much as anyone, but they have no right to nostalgia as they are simply not worthy of it. These were cheap and nasty bikes: they used Bmx bottom brackets and tiny headsets and forks (or what ever Raleigh had lying about after the end of the bmx fad). They used gas pipe tubes, heavy welds, steel rims and chrome parts. Even though they were aimed at children they never came in suitable sizes and no attempt was made to size parts accordingly. Even though they were mtbs they could not be taken off road as they were too heavy, wouldnt stop in the rain, would buckle or bow at a slightest hit. When they came back to the shop they would cost more to repair than normal bikes becasue of the odd parts, they needed far more frequent servicing and were a constant source of disappointment to both the children and the parents. They were a case in point of marketing over any form of design. At the same time people could have bought a nice Trek which would have lasted longer and had far more use, even the shitty Claude butlers that i used to sell were as cheap as this but were better built and that is saying something!
As a group, If we are going to waste our time on this hobby then let's at least make sure it's wasted in a worthwhile way by rebuilding things worthy of the attention. Sure, not everyone can afford a Merlin or a Cunningham but everyone can afford an Orange Clockwork or a Specialized Stumper from the 90s, everyone can hunt out odd frames on ebay or at swap meets or in the classifieds on here. Why build 20 £50 GT outposts or Raleigh Mustangs when, for the same money, you could do 2 or 3 proper zaskars or dynatechs.
We must start mocking people who build these things, we must not heap praise on people simply because they are able to build a bike for £50. We must be more selective and snobby, prasing people for their skills and abilities in choosing the right bike to build as much as for their ability to build it. Our standards must be high otherwise we may as well start calling this site whiteshite.co.uk. How can a bike be worth of praise if it cost £200 when new - no care or love was involved in it's inception so why offer it love now.
To have these types of bike on a website like this is a clear slap in the face to those of us who bother searching out the right bikes, researching and sourcing the kit over a space of months and taking the time to build the bikes as perfectly as possible. The lowering of standards and acceptance of shite bikes has lead to all manner of crap being posted up, being entered into and getting voted as BOTM or even BOTY just because people now go 'oo, shiney! I'll vote for that as it's been resprayed and he rides it' rather than actually understanding the history of bikes, brands, parts, timelines eras etc. We even have people getting praise for bikes that they have bought but done nothing to ffs! Sure, let's be inclusive but not at the expense of quality. Sure, let's praise but only when it's due.
So in summary:
I hate these bikes, i hate everything about them, i disliked them when new, I hated my one when i bought it, i couldn't wait to replace it.
I dislike people who own low end bikes or rebuild them claiming that they are as good as a £1000 bikes, they're not. I hated those letters in MBUK where people said that 'you could have fun on a £100 bike and that it's not all about the bike'. I hate misguided people who think they'll save money by buying a nasty bike over a decent bike costing £100 more. I hate people who bitch about bikes that don't get ridden, a bike can be just looked at if it is nice enough unlike your piece of shite, get over your jealousy. I hate people who believe they deserve praise just because they ride their bikes. I hate salvaged shite bikes that get thrown up on this site with the regularity of vomit outside a nightclub on a Friday night. Stop and think for a minute. Salvage the bikes, sell them and save the money for a proper bike but don't show the rest of us until you've got something worthwhile. If i wanted to see crap then I'll look in the toilet, if I want to see trash then i have a bin in my kitchen. I hate the assumption that just because something is old it is 'historical or rare', an 80s bike can be historical, so can a 90s bike, but 99% of them are just shite. Dawes ATBs are not historic or rare, Claude butler ATBs are not rare or historic, Peugeot ATBs are not rare or historic, Saracen ATBs are not rare or historic, Raleigh ATBs are not rare or historic. Let's search out the rare or historic, find bikes with a backstory, with a past and give those bikes a future.
But most of all i hate NOS Raleigh Mustang frames.
And yes, I haven't taken my meds today :?
Now for the drinks... I may have to hold off until after the watershed, surfice to say I have an absolute hatred of old low end bikes, even more so when they are restored or rebuilt to their former 'glory'. Yes I rode these as much as anyone, but they have no right to nostalgia as they are simply not worthy of it. These were cheap and nasty bikes: they used Bmx bottom brackets and tiny headsets and forks (or what ever Raleigh had lying about after the end of the bmx fad). They used gas pipe tubes, heavy welds, steel rims and chrome parts. Even though they were aimed at children they never came in suitable sizes and no attempt was made to size parts accordingly. Even though they were mtbs they could not be taken off road as they were too heavy, wouldnt stop in the rain, would buckle or bow at a slightest hit. When they came back to the shop they would cost more to repair than normal bikes becasue of the odd parts, they needed far more frequent servicing and were a constant source of disappointment to both the children and the parents. They were a case in point of marketing over any form of design. At the same time people could have bought a nice Trek which would have lasted longer and had far more use, even the shitty Claude butlers that i used to sell were as cheap as this but were better built and that is saying something!
As a group, If we are going to waste our time on this hobby then let's at least make sure it's wasted in a worthwhile way by rebuilding things worthy of the attention. Sure, not everyone can afford a Merlin or a Cunningham but everyone can afford an Orange Clockwork or a Specialized Stumper from the 90s, everyone can hunt out odd frames on ebay or at swap meets or in the classifieds on here. Why build 20 £50 GT outposts or Raleigh Mustangs when, for the same money, you could do 2 or 3 proper zaskars or dynatechs.
We must start mocking people who build these things, we must not heap praise on people simply because they are able to build a bike for £50. We must be more selective and snobby, prasing people for their skills and abilities in choosing the right bike to build as much as for their ability to build it. Our standards must be high otherwise we may as well start calling this site whiteshite.co.uk. How can a bike be worth of praise if it cost £200 when new - no care or love was involved in it's inception so why offer it love now.
To have these types of bike on a website like this is a clear slap in the face to those of us who bother searching out the right bikes, researching and sourcing the kit over a space of months and taking the time to build the bikes as perfectly as possible. The lowering of standards and acceptance of shite bikes has lead to all manner of crap being posted up, being entered into and getting voted as BOTM or even BOTY just because people now go 'oo, shiney! I'll vote for that as it's been resprayed and he rides it' rather than actually understanding the history of bikes, brands, parts, timelines eras etc. We even have people getting praise for bikes that they have bought but done nothing to ffs! Sure, let's be inclusive but not at the expense of quality. Sure, let's praise but only when it's due.
So in summary:
I hate these bikes, i hate everything about them, i disliked them when new, I hated my one when i bought it, i couldn't wait to replace it.
I dislike people who own low end bikes or rebuild them claiming that they are as good as a £1000 bikes, they're not. I hated those letters in MBUK where people said that 'you could have fun on a £100 bike and that it's not all about the bike'. I hate misguided people who think they'll save money by buying a nasty bike over a decent bike costing £100 more. I hate people who bitch about bikes that don't get ridden, a bike can be just looked at if it is nice enough unlike your piece of shite, get over your jealousy. I hate people who believe they deserve praise just because they ride their bikes. I hate salvaged shite bikes that get thrown up on this site with the regularity of vomit outside a nightclub on a Friday night. Stop and think for a minute. Salvage the bikes, sell them and save the money for a proper bike but don't show the rest of us until you've got something worthwhile. If i wanted to see crap then I'll look in the toilet, if I want to see trash then i have a bin in my kitchen. I hate the assumption that just because something is old it is 'historical or rare', an 80s bike can be historical, so can a 90s bike, but 99% of them are just shite. Dawes ATBs are not historic or rare, Claude butler ATBs are not rare or historic, Peugeot ATBs are not rare or historic, Saracen ATBs are not rare or historic, Raleigh ATBs are not rare or historic. Let's search out the rare or historic, find bikes with a backstory, with a past and give those bikes a future.
But most of all i hate NOS Raleigh Mustang frames.
And yes, I haven't taken my meds today :?
Just in case no one steps up in support... every word of what Pete says is true.
And I want to subscribe to this thread.
And I want to subscribe to this thread.
Nice rant, thought I had logged onto VRC for a minute and not Retrobike :?
The friendly community spirit of this forum makes people comfortable showing off their bikes regardless of what they cost and many new members progress to better and rarer bikes over time so I don't really think it would be right to slag them and their bikes off do you?
The friendly community spirit of this forum makes people comfortable showing off their bikes regardless of what they cost and many new members progress to better and rarer bikes over time so I don't really think it would be right to slag them and their bikes off do you?
toaster999
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I agree. For some people its all about the memories and not whether their old bike was crap or not. To them it was and will always be great.chrisv40":3r8rjv7a said:
Don't let this get all eliteist for God's sake. Or start flogging your Dekerfs and Kliens for peanuts to help those unfortunates that can't be as picky.
