New / old Cyclist Road / MTB / Touring Bike fit

[mattr]

You do know that KOPS (Knee Over Pedal Spindle) was no more than a useful guideline/startpoint for an average man, on an average road bike. As soon as you move away from that, it'll be no more than a coincidence if your knee does end up there.

It's actually quite a useful litmus test for a bike fitter. If they start by getting KOPS sorted, and are charging anything for the fit, walk away. Or ride away.

 

[grarea]

This is all great stuff, thanks all for the input.
I don't know what I don't know..... you know?

As for the reach, play with a bar that as more sweep (5 degree) and revolve them till you have the maximum contact area with your palm.

It will be interesting to see how this ends up.
I shall play with bars. Height is also pretty key, I am so used to being over the bars it feels all wrong.

I have realised that because i bring my hands in, that also makes a need for a slightly closer bar. I will try a wider bar as well.
All the little things add up don't they?

My Mrs' early 90s Peugeot hybrid/shopper is really upright and comfortable! Its a large frame but the top tube is short and you are sat very upright with little weight on hands. Might be worth looking at some hybrids?

I did start off on a hybrid but found the top tube too long. Hence I went with this with the shorter top tube.

I reckon if I rode this:
https://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/
it would put me in a position like Cavendish on the track


Also, in an ideal world, I want to allow some leeway for dropping it if I get it completely wrong.
I reckon this frame (which I really like) should allow me to get it right, I shall find a position without pain and see where I am at.

You do know that KOPS (Knee Over Pedal Spindle) was no more than a useful guideline/startpoint for an average man, on an average road bike. As soon as you move away from that, it'll be no more than a coincidence if your knee does end up there.

Cheers for this.
Well, I now know that it is only a mere ball park ish type guide.
But I didn't even know it was a thing a couple of weeks ago.

I came at it from the other way.
I knew that I was constantly trying to push myself off the back of the saddle especially when going up hill.
So I looked into where your knee 'should' be. This kind of answered a question.

Then I thought about the pain and decided that that might be avoidable.
When I think about it, any hill over the years has had my backside pushing back and trying to steer with my fingertips.

I have no idea where my knee 'should be' mind, so keep em coming.

Thanks again everyone for all the input, it is all worth pondering.

 

[mattr]

I have no idea where my knee 'should be' mind, so keep em coming.

Mines about 1cm behind the spindle. Wifes is in a similar location , shes got a 25mm layback post and the saddle all the way back to get comfortable.
Last fit i did for a mate ended up almost bang on over the spindle. Coincidence.

If you really are such an outlier in a biomechanical sense, it really might be worth you going to a fitter and spending a few quid, then buying the right stuff straight off, rather than experimenting for 12 months, spending more money, and still being uncomfortable for most of the 12 months.........

 

[mattr]

And a lot of this sounds like a massively bad choice of bike, or sizing of said bike.

 

[grarea]

If you really are such an outlier in a biomechanical sense, it really might be worth you going to a fitter and spending a few quid, then buying the right stuff straight off, rather than experimenting for 12 months, spending more money, and still being uncomfortable for most of the 12 months.........

And a lot of this sounds like a massively bad choice of bike, or sizing of said bike.

You might be right on both counts.
I didn't think I was far out to be honest. (body shape wise)

I mean I don't think I look like a dwarf, you know? I am pretty average Joe.
I have just ridden 'medium' bikes or small framed bikes. But I haven't really focussed on it before.
Especially frame and head angles. (It is really interesting though)
It just seems like a combination of factors.

I thought i could get it somewhere near straight off and tweak, but the pain was a problem.

I have always been a bit cautious of spending money on experts as you are so reliant on them being right.
I have seen so many scenarios where 'what is right' has been so far wrong when we learn more.
Maybe I am wrong, maybe it has improved a lot. I just reckoned the best way to know is to cycle and adjust.
Also, because I am so new back to cycling, I didn't think a fit would be relevant.
I kind of thought they were for roadies. Getting you streamlined and all that.
Not a slightly over weight born again beginner with no clue.
Sounds like I might be wrong there as well.
Like I say, I didn't think I was this complicated.

On the plus side, I am on the right lines.
I just popped out for a little ride. (I only go for twenty minutes.)
The bars are now three inches further back
Two inches higher and they sweep away from me.
WAY less pain. I mean, bloody luxury.

It has also reduced the sit bone pain by 10-15% and the numb feet by a good 50%.
Lush. (that is a bonus, I was going to come on to that one later)

Also, it means the wrist bones aren't feeling bruised and tender so i can go again sooner.
Nice.

I am still wanting to set the saddle back a bit more and do something with the bars.
(At this rate I really will need a shopping basket)

Anyone know how good the guys in Truro are?

 

[mattr]

I have always been a bit cautious of spending money on experts as you are so reliant on them being right.

Yeah, it has become more of an issue since cycling became the new golf, lots of people setting themselves up as fitters, wheelbuilders, coaches and so on. Many of whom haven't got a clue, or are under qualified (or not qualified at all!).
Makes the whole thing a bit of a minefield. Probably got a 50/50 chance of getting a con man in certain fields. (i know at least 50% of the fitters local to me couldn't be trusted to fit you with a pair of socks, same with the wheel builders, except nearer 75%!)

FWIW Fitting is of potential benefit for anything that involves sitting down for long periods of time. So Road through to CX and XC. Trail and DH, less so. Possibly of no use at all there!

Can't really help you with Truro i'm afraid.

 

[grarea]

Yeah, it has become more of an issue since cycling became the new golf, lots of people setting themselves up as fitters, wheelbuilders, coaches and so on. Many of whom haven't got a clue, or are under qualified (or not qualified at all!).
Makes the whole thing a bit of a minefield. Probably got a 50/50 chance of getting a con man in certain fields. (i know at least 50% of the fitters local to me couldn't be trusted to fit you with a pair of socks, same with the wheel builders, except nearer 75%!)

FWIW Fitting is of potential benefit for anything that involves sitting down for long periods of time. So Road through to CX and XC. Trail and DH, less so. Possibly of no use at all there!

Can't really help you with Truro i'm afraid.

Yes, this is my concern.
I really like the idea of it, but often in life I have known more about a topic then the 'expert' I am talking to.
If they are good, it would be a great benefit. Really interesting and really educational.
But I doubt they would let me pay only if I deemed them to be of benefit.
I am concerned that it would be a waste of money.

Also they charge quite a lot don't they? I would probably need to sell my bike to pay for it.

 

[grarea]

OH!!!! I get it now.
It is ALL about the setback.
None of what I have ever read or heard has really made sense to me.
I have just been reading up about the balance thing. Weight on pedals etc etc
I have too much weight on my hands.
I have ALWAYS had too much weight on my hands.
The conversation all makes sense now.

It isn't the height of the bar etc it is the setback.
I suspect that this is the shallowest angle frame I have had and the most setback seatpost I have had.
And I think I still want it set back more.
I doubt that I have ever had a saddle set back far enough.
I have always held myself on my hands.

I have just set myself even further back on the saddle in the lounge and suddenly i got light hands.
Awesome.
Now to test my theory.

 

[xerxes]

Re:

Planet-X have a good selection of alternative style handlebars, some might look a little odd, but if it means the difference between being able to ride or not, I say go for it: http://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/components ... andle-bars

 

[Woz]

Re:

I'm helping a buddy (non cyclist) do a bike fit on some low end thing that was given.


The frame "appears" the right size for his height but the total reach is dangerously short:

- knees almost banging on the handle bars when out of the saddle indicating a too short stem (it is twitchy as feck unsurprisingly)
- shitty saddle with no means to
increase set-back. No amount of compensation in the stem will make it right forcing a front heavy configuration.

Anyhow, it's worth seeking a bike fit and trying a few different geometries so you enjoy it.