Mystery Machine - Help identifying, please

[Jimbonic]

Hi,

Sorry, this is a copy of a post I made on the LFGSS forum - easier than trying to remember all of this!

I bought this frame from a chap on eBay. They thought it was a Steve Elsworth frame. And, since he was a builder for MKM, I tried them, or at least the chap who runs the mkm-cycles.co.uk site. They deny any responsibility! Whilst MKM did produce lugless frames (The Ultimate), the frame number's wrong and they didn't have internal cable routing (in the top tube). So, I'm back to square one...

The frame number is 5207, with 97 stamped upside down to that. It has Reynolds 531 decals on the frame and forks. Of course, they may be incorrect later additions. But, given it has Campag drop outs front and rear, I'm optimistic that they're genuine. I have no idea whether the chrome work is original or not. I suspect that it has been resprayed - the transition between paint and chrome on the chain stays is not the best.

I'd love to find out what it is and what its original build was, so I can build it back up to somewhere near original. So, if any of you knowledgeable chaps and chapesses have any ideas, I'd love to hear them. I've got some other photos laying about, if it would help.

Cheers

PS So, It seems that this could well be a 531 frame. It's definitely thin walled steel. And I've checked and confirmed that the forks match the frame (same frame number stamped on it). A few anomalies that have transpired. Internal cable routing and cable guides under the BB point toward late 80s, whereas the rear OLND is 122 mm, indicating a 5-speed hub. The mystery continues...

UPDATE: No, still no idea who built this frame. My latest ideas are that it could be a Philbrook or Roberts frame. They both built lugless and were a bit more experimental back in the day. The lugless frame, under-BB cable routing and 122 mm rear spacing are not so easy to find on one frame...
So, if anyone has any info on how to follow this up with either of these builders, or has any other bright ideas, I'm all ears!


How do I add photos from my PC? I tried the "Upload attachment" thing. But, I seem to have failed. :cry:

 

[bikenut2010]

resize the jpegs to about 100k?

 

[Jimbonic]

Re:

Done! Thanks for the tip.

 

[cce]

is it possible someone's squished the back end to use a singlespeed/track hub in it?

 

[Jimbonic]

Re:

Hi, cce. Yes, it is always possible. The chap I bought it from said he'd built it up as a road bike. But, he didn't specify whether it was a fixed / ss. Either way, I've managed to find a Shimano 105SC hub that fits (and takes the 7-speed cassette I have. So, there is a possibility that it was current at the same period as those (late 80s?).

Whilst I'm building it up with (mostly) Shimano 600 kit, it would be fantastic if I could find out its original build spec.

 

[Jimbonic]

It's been a while since I last posted - life had taken over!

I am still none the wiser as to what this bike is. I have trawled the interweb and cannot find anything the same. It has some similarities with Mercians, Woodrups, Raleighs and Peugeots, as far as I can see. But, the frame numbers and other little bits and pieces don't seem to match those.

The frame number and fork number are very similar, but not identical: frame = 97/5027, but the number on the fork steerer is 5207 (possibly with an 11, or they could just be random marks).

The fork is a semi-sloping Reynolds fork (I think). The seat stays are fastbacks. It's got Campag drop-outs (or whatever you call them when they are slopey). There's a little nodule behind the head tube, which could be a painted-over grease point or for securing a pump under the top tube. The water bottle bosses have 4-pointed stars. The brake bridge is straight, with a boss for an allen screw brake.

But, whatever its origins, it is becoming more of a bike. I have got as far as fitting the handlebars, brake levers, front and rear mechs, chain rings and cranks - oh, and the wheels. So, all that's needed is a set of cables, a chain and handlebar tape and I'll be on the road.

If there are any sleuths out there who can help with identifying this bike, I would be most grateful.

I may even get around to finishing this before the summer's over.....

 

[torqueless]

Re:

A shot in the dark- you could try Ellis Briggs/Favori. I believe their number system was up to 5000 by the mid-late '70s. Don't know if they did lugless. They certainly did fastback. The position of the number puts me in mind of Bob Jackson too, but I think their numbers were up to 5000 a bit earlier. The '97 stamp could denote the year the frame got revamped, with 'modern' braze-ons. You certainly don't expect Campag 'long' dropouts (if that is what they are) on a close clearance fastback frame with allen key brake bolts, two sets of bottle cage bosses, and braze-on front derailleur. I'd say a race frame with those dropouts is likely to be roughly pre-'77, unless a customer specifically requested them in preference to the new 'short' dropouts.

 

[roadking]

It's been a while since I last posted - life had taken over!

I am still none the wiser as to what this bike is. I have trawled the interweb and cannot find anything the same. It has some similarities with Mercians, Woodrups, Raleighs and Peugeots, as far as I can see. But, the frame numbers and other little bits and pieces don't seem to match those.

The frame number and fork number are very similar, but not identical: frame = 97/5027, but the number on the fork steerer is 5207 (possibly with an 11, or they could just be random marks).

The fork is a semi-sloping Reynolds fork (I think). The seat stays are fastbacks. It's got Campag drop-outs (or whatever you call them when they are slopey). There's a little nodule behind the head tube, which could be a painted-over grease point or for securing a pump under the top tube. The water bottle bosses have 4-pointed stars. The brake bridge is straight, with a boss for an allen screw brake.

But, whatever its origins, it is becoming more of a bike. I have got as far as fitting the handlebars, brake levers, front and rear mechs, chain rings and cranks - oh, and the wheels. So, all that's needed is a set of cables, a chain and handlebar tape and I'll be on the road.

If there are any sleuths out there who can help with identifying this bike, I would be most grateful.

I may even get around to finishing this before the summer's over.....

Appreciate your original post is quite old, and I'm always interested in why people think frames are by a certain builder - wishful thinking ? Not a criticism just an observation.

I can tell what it isn't and the black paint and photos don't help. It isn't a Philbrook nor is it a Roberts, I have good knowledge of both these makers and have examples of their work. If I saw it I might be more helpful, so good luck with the search for an identity.

Jon
now back from Spain.

 

[Jimbonic]

Re:

Thanks, Torqueless & Jon

Sounds like I could give Ellis Briggs/Favori a go. I can't think why they didn't come up on my radar.

There are some bits of the frame that look very much like those on some frames I see around. But, then, there will be a little detail that throws it off.

Jon, I don't think I'm in the wishful thinking set (whether that is a good or bad thing). I'm just trying to find out if this frame has an identifiable builder. Then, I may be able to find out what the original build was and try to build it up to that period if not the original build.

I am glad to be able to knock a couple off the list, though. Thank you.

Thanks again