Mystery Bike ! 1950 French Randonneuse 650B

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Old Ned":2j0lkel6 said:
firedfromthecircus":2j0lkel6 said:
cloonaghpat":2j0lkel6 said:
This is an education :shock: and aerolevers from the 1950s, just amazing, great thread.

Regards,

Pat

I am in complete agreement. Fascinating stuff. :D

Me too! I was fascinated by the brake levers, thanks for the explanation. Were they the inspiration for the Shimano etc. versions of the 80's? And the pedals with no axles. Didn't Shimano have a similar design for one of their 'Aero' groupsets?

Super bike all round.


Frankly , I really don't know why these levers did not succeed. They are actually quite comfortable without any hood.
Would rather say quite more than the ubiquitous Mafacs of the same era.
I suspect , the manufacturer was only a small one.
In the cycling magazines from the era, I have never seen an ad so possibly distribution and marketing were scarce !
It manfactured some cantilever brakes too but these are brakes are uber rare !

On this count , Mafac with its cantilevers and all sorts of levers got the upper hand in the "competition" ( Mafac actually was started by a bike manufacturer called Bourdel. But the brakes manufacturing production certainly took the upper hand over the bike production).
Mafac is not the inventor of the canti's but surfed the wave ( cantis appeared arround 1936) the most efficiently after WW2

This Frexel make is actually a bit more well known for its reverse levers that actually were mounted on quite a few "city bikes" from the well known builder Herse. They may have been quite expensive.

They have the same philosophy of brake housing along the bar :idea:



http://www.reneherse.com/RHporteur.html


I have a Hurtu sporting them too



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About Shimano with the aero levers in the 80's ( and pedals without full axle) , it may have been influenced but I find the time gap rather large.
Maybe patent protection could have played a role
I wonder where the Shimano patents can be seen :?:

But frankly, I believe both Frexel and Sanzax were probably "dead" quite sooner than the 80's so legacy may be farfetched. - I need to look at this patent trail :idea:
 
Re:

.
Bike rebuilt, , with period lights. and NOS old brake green housing

Spring of the rear mech and chain to adjust slightly

The stem had to be changed because it was broken inside the fork tube and it has been a nightmare to get it out :roll:

replaced it with a very nice and rare AVA stem.

tried to make a few "fancy pics" ! :LOL:

This is my first true randonneuse and even being from 1950, still pretty efficient.

Quite comfortable, surprisingly fast on flats - easy to keep pace with more modern machines.
it feels pretty safe on steep downhills and brakes are very decent

As already mentionned, can't hide that it lacks a few ratios especially on slight uphills ( but maybe its more the old cyclist not being in tip top shape who is to blame :facepalm: )

I have also got a rear detachable rack for bags ( hence some details on the rear seatstays) and some period bags but they need some mending.

I'll probably never know the true framemaker but alas, its much rarer in its present build that most of the signed fancy machines :idea:

and so much more charming because of this mystery :mrgreen:
























 
Gorgeous.
argie.gif
 
I agree with FFTC and Woz, it really is gorgeous, very lovely. It just looks like it would be a pleasure to ride.

Jamie
 
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Was not very happy with some of the shots so went to this amazing monument near Paris ( in remembrance of the flying squadron unit " Escadrille Lafayette" in the first World War )
so for our fellow americans one pic of the setup

slightly better but the light is not great , the sky being completely covered and grey :cry: and I am an amateur photograph :roll:









 
Lovely shots.
Every time I see this machine, and that's quite often the last few days, I notice some other small detail that catches my eye.
This moment its the small, fine looking rear cable hanger. Very finely done and such a nice design.
I really like seeing these older randonneuse/randonneur , tourer setups as the attention to detail/design may be the same as their lightweight cousins but there is more going on, more bang for your buck. The attention to detail is really shown off. You don't see that quite as much today, as with even the proliferation of custom builders around, they are built to a fluctuating budget. Its usually only in their showcase displays that they can show off this type of flair, and then its only a select few.
This is really lovely so please keep the posts coming.

Jamie
 
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Tres bon mon amis

That is about the limit of my French :oops:

Absolutely beautiful machine, an amazing fusion of practicality and flair, looks like they could have taught some of today's 'designers' a thing or two about ergonomics and integration.

Magnifique :D :mrgreen:
 
Jamiedyer":spi6hrxo said:
Lovely shots.
Every time I see this machine, and that's quite often the last few days, I notice some other small detail that catches my eye.
This moment its the small, fine looking rear cable hanger. Very finely done and such a nice design.
I really like seeing these older randonneuse/randonneur , tourer setups as the attention to detail/design may be the same as their lightweight cousins but there is more going on, more bang for your buck. The attention to detail is really shown off. You don't see that quite as much today, as with even the proliferation of custom builders around, they are built to a fluctuating budget. Its usually only in their showcase displays that they can show off this type of flair, and then its only a select few.
This is really lovely so please keep the posts coming.

Jamie

You put your finger on the sore point : cost !

In the old days, cost was clearly not the major criteria for production and extent of sophistication - it was the demanding posture of the framemaker about the quality he wanted to reach !

Herse is possibly a proof of that - middle quality machines were just not up to the standards they wanted to show

But is this sort of work still available today ?!

It surely is but a steep price - JP Weigle, TOEI, MAP surely reach that sort of quality but waiting list and price is scary - especially if you wish some fancy details. ( possibly 2500 to 3000 USD for the frame only minimum)

But I must say , there is a bit of hope on the french front . There is a bit of a revival in France of small framemakers

Thay are certainly not comparable in numbers to the US level ( I am always amazed of the number of small independant ones who do custon frames as the size of the market and wealth of enough of the customers allows that :idea: )

And this movement ( possibly helped by Jan Heine interest and research about french bicyles - pictured in his review Bicycle Quarterly ) just took a late turn with a new "concours de machines" just a couple of months ago.

These started before WW2 , were a sort of competition between upmarket framemakers , sponsored to a certain extent by a body which was working on the promotion of Duralumin and a paper.

Clearly, its the advent of aluminium parts which triggered the revolution around 1935 of sophisticated and light bikes

The old "concours de machines" which sported mostly randonneuses bikes which had to have fenders , racksn lights and competed on setup but also a few stages in the mountain to see how they could cope.

It became fast one of the display for the manufacturers products and a marketing occasion

In 1937 if I remember correctly the winning machine was less than 8 kilos !

In 1938, they did two classes to limit the "rat race to save weight" ( all the parts were files to save some) - one with no limit another one where the bikes could be ordered by the wealthy customer !

but still , the Mr "Smith machine" which was supposed to available in the shops was about 9 kilos !

The old Concours de Machines

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/12/ ... al-trials/

The new one with the winning machine from Victoire Cycles

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/07/ ... al-trials/




facebook post

https://www.facebook.com/concours.de.machines/


Here in french , a more thorough review of most of the presented machines

don't be afraid - pics alone are worth the look ;)

https://cyclodonia.wordpress.com/2016/0 ... -machines/
 
Thanks for the information, I will dig through in more detail this evening.
That's what great about this site, you learn all the time. I can't get enough of it :)
Whilst I am not that articulate in trying to get across my thinking towards the frame production, I do believe you understood what I was meaning.
As well as the USA there are a good few frame builders around the world who would be capable of this type of work, its the costing of it that is prohibitive. One of the builders I see regularly on an Asian forum as well as on facebook, does some really very beautiful old style lug work on both road and touring machines. The work he does on some of the more neo retro builds would easily be comparable with someone like Hetchins etc. I have seen a very nicely built 650b type randonneur machine with racks,lights etc. I will dig out his info. The bulk of his work is standard lugged steel road machines and from what I can gather he is based next to or inside the Tange factory in Taiwan. There are also several small Japanese builders building some nice randonneur type machines, very well thought out and small touches beautifully executed.
Especially some of the Japanese ones, as soon as I see them I automatically associate them with the French 50's randonneur models.

Must look through my favourites folder for these links.

Jamie
 
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