My 1996 Orange C16R

[Anthony]

My bike was made in August 1996 and the forks an up-grade to the F14 Alloy forks which were offered at the time.

So he's saying that it conforms to the normal interpretation of the serial number format then, but I have to say it still doesn't mean it's a 1996 model. After being built in Taiwan in August, it had to be freighted half way round the world, be assembled into a bike and be distributed to a shop, which is all going to take a fair while. Orange were a bit more haphazard than bigger brands, but even they used to get the new model year bikes to the shops before Christmas each year, which means that they must have been building the frames for the 97 model year by August of 96 (and for a few months before that as well).

Ben@OrangeBikeUK may be a helpful contact, as I have known previous enquiries result in people being given advice that was plainly wrong. Perhaps it depends on whether the person you get through to has the standing in the company to be able to just go and ask Steve Wade.

 

[sylus]

so it's a 96 frame that was assembled as a bike in either late 96 or sometime in 97 then

 

[Moss]

Like the photos of the bike! I have the older model C16R ORANGE!

I believe mine is a 1990 version of your bike? here's a photo.

A few actually! It's original; except for handlebar.

 

[Anthony]

I have the older model C16R ORANGE!
I believe mine is a 1990 version of your bike? here's a photo.
It's original; except for handlebar.

Your frame is quite like mine, and I believe it is a 1996 frame. Unlike 1995 frames, it has a removable seat clamp. Unlike Jussa's 1997 frame, it has a cantilever bridge - 1997 Oranges had V-brakes, so the frames didn't have canti bridges.

The thing I don't quite understand about Jussa's frame is that, like ours, it has been built with a threaded headset, whereas 1997 bikes were ahead. But it may just be that they had to do that because they only had the F9 forks with threaded steerers (the only photos I have of 1997 E3s with F9 forks all show quill stems).

Not that it really matters of course.

 

[Jussa]

My bike was made in August 1996 and the forks an up-grade to the F14 Alloy forks which were offered at the time.

So he's saying that it conforms to the normal interpretation of the serial number format then, but I have to say it still doesn't mean it's a 1996 model. After being built in Taiwan in August, it had to be freighted half way round the world, be assembled into a bike and be distributed to a shop, which is all going to take a fair while. Orange were a bit more haphazard than bigger brands, but even they used to get the new model year bikes to the shops before Christmas each year, which means that they must have been building the frames for the 97 model year by August of 96 (and for a few months before that as well).

Ben@OrangeBikeUK may be a helpful contact, as I have known previous enquiries result in people being given advice that was plainly wrong. Perhaps it depends on whether the person you get through to has the standing in the company to be able to just go and ask Steve Wade.

I'm guessing the thoughts and processes for dating a bike are very much open to interpretation. there are many variables that seem to sway decisions on the age of an item, who you speak to whether they are an expert or not, groupset, colour, geometry etc etc, the list goes on.

The hard part of the evidence in this case is the Stamp and Serial Number on the frame. The frame may have been transported around the globe, may have sat in some warehouse waiting for dispatch to a local bike shop or supplier, may have even sat in some bike shop for a number of months before seeing light and being ridden home, but the Frame was born into the MTB world on this date.

Maybe it would be better stating its a 96 Orange with 97 Spec equipment? Who knows?.........

Anyway whilst we strive to get out 'Retro' rides looking good, and as close to the rides we once had as kids or dreamed of in most cases, one thing i can say is weather it be 85,95,96,97 we love them and in today's era where old is to easily discarded this has to be a good thing........

I am one happy Orange owner and thats what counts

 

[Moss]

I have the older model C16R ORANGE!
I believe mine is a 1990 version of your bike? here's a photo.
It's original; except for handlebar.

Your frame is quite like mine, and I believe it is a 1996 frame. Unlike 1995 frames, it has a removable seat clamp. Unlike Jussa's 1997 frame, it has a cantilever bridge - 1997 Oranges had V-brakes, so the frames didn't have canti bridges.

The thing I don't quite understand about Jussa's frame is that, like ours, it has been built with a threaded headset, whereas 1997 bikes were ahead. But it may just be that they had to do that because they only had the F9 forks with threaded steerers (the only photos I have of 1997 E3s with F9 forks all show quill stems).

Not that it really matters of course.

Hi Anthony,

Bought my bike from Sunset Cycles Cardiff, somewhere between 1990 and 1993, but no later than that! may have been early 1993.

 

[Anthony]

Hi Anthony,
Bought my bike from Sunset Cycles Cardiff, somewhere between 1990 and 1993, but no later than that! may have been early 1993.

Hi Moss

The C16R model first came out in 1994 and the 1994 and 95 C16Rs had a braze-on seat clamp.

 

[Jussa]

Hi Anthony,
Bought my bike from Sunset Cycles Cardiff, somewhere between 1990 and 1993, but no later than that! may have been early 1993.

Hi Moss

The C16R model first came out in 1994 and the 1994 and 95 C16Rs had a braze-on seat clamp.

Anthony, I'm intrigued as to where you get the info from? Were you employed by Orange? You seem very knowledgable..... How do you explain Moss's situation? We are going to have two Orange owners confused.com

 

[Anthony]

Anthony, I'm intrigued as to where you get the info from? Were you employed by Orange? You seem very knowledgable..... How do you explain Moss's situation? We are going to have two Orange owners confused.com

Well, you live and learn Jussa. There's lots of information on the web, on here, in catalogues, in old magazines. Most people just aren't interested in details, but I am. Most people don't know what size their bike is, what year it is, and quite reasonably don't care - they know they like riding it, so what else counts? Then for whatever reason they need to know the answer, so sometimes they ask me and I tell them. If they don't believe me, that's up to them, why should I care?

Just as an example about Orange, I corresponded recently with the owner of a 2000 Orange E4 because he PM'd me asking more about it. I won't bore you with the details, but what he had been told by Orange was demonstrably wrong - their own catalogues show it to be wrong, photos of E4s of different years show it, there's no doubt about it at all. The point is that they're not interested in their heritage, they're interested in selling their 2012 bikes and staying in business and in work. You can't really blame them for that. They did at one point devote part of their website to their heritage, gallery of owners' bikes, all the old catalogues, etc. It was quite good, but it's not there any longer. I presume that must tell a story.

 

[Jussa]

Anthony, I'm intrigued as to where you get the info from? Were you employed by Orange? You seem very knowledgable..... How do you explain Moss's situation? We are going to have two Orange owners confused.com

Well, you live and learn Jussa. There's lots of information on the web, on here, in catalogues, in old magazines. Most people just aren't interested in details, but I am. Most people don't know what size their bike is, what year it is, and quite reasonably don't care - they know they like riding it, so what else counts? Then for whatever reason they need to know the answer, so sometimes they ask me and I tell them. If they don't believe me, that's up to them, why should I care?

Just as an example about Orange, I corresponded recently with the owner of a 2000 Orange E4 because he PM'd me asking more about it. I won't bore you with the details, but what he had been told by Orange was demonstrably wrong - their own catalogues show it to be wrong, photos of E4s of different years show it, there's no doubt about it at all. The point is that they're not interested in their heritage, they're interested in selling their 2012 bikes and staying in business and in work. You can't really blame them for that. They did at one point devote part of their website to their heritage, gallery of owners' bikes, all the old catalogues, etc. It was quite good, but it's not there any longer. I presume that must tell a story.

So how do you explain Moss's situation? he has had this bike from new i am guessing from his posts?

I understand Orange's view on things, they have to prioritise on the part of the buisiness keeping them afloat, us hard core retrobike revivalists are i am guessing not making them much money at all and in all honesty not good for the bike sale industry fullstop. I am not saying its true in all cases, i am the owner of a brand new well 2010 Voodoo Canzo Full Suspension bike.

Anyway i guess its good we have a font of knowledge available to us via websites like Retrobike