MTB Innovations

[k-rod]

you mean, a focused and newly creative application. or, as someone said ... "out of the box thinking" ...

that's what happens, when you take a bunch of overgrown kids, many of which happened to like to smoke the ganga, and throw a new adventure sport at them ... they get highly creative, and applicative.

the real question is ... what's the next awesome innovation or idea re-application, in the mountainbike world?

 

[danson67]

Re:

the real question is ... what's the next awesome innovation or idea re-application, in the mountainbike world?

How about actually riding across real countryside on them? (He says cynically...)
Far too much uplift assisted downhill, RedBull madness, and trail centre theme park riding going on IMHO. :evil:

All the best,

 

[steve 1000]

Who remembers the shimano biopace chain rings? At the time i worked at muddy fox and also reviewed lots of the new things on the market, i done a test ride of the at the the new doer group set on a bike that was sent to us from shimano and i said at the time that the elliptical chain rings were not that good as it made gear changes slow. guess i was right.
people seem to think shimano came out with the sealed bottom bracket but in facet surtout had them long time before and looked almost the same, we had a few samples of them and i had one on my muddy fox monarch. the original monarch

 

[steve 1000]

Another thing i did was to bolt on an extra chain ring so we had 4, and at the same time i fitter an extra two sprockets on to the freewheel (yes, not a cassette) and again they is bits about it in the magsfrom that time.

 

[jazzibizznizz]

Chris Bell's Egg Rings had been around for a while before Biopace. The main difference was in the orientation - Egg Rings utilised the dead spot in the cranks revolution. Not sure what Shimano were thinking, though, cos their rings were oriented round another 90 degrees. But neither design is seen on bikes these days, so that's probably a fair indication of their effectiveness!

 

[steve 1000]

Re:

That's right, if you got the other oval rings and say spun the pedals the rear mech cage would pull back and forth as with shimano it stayed static

 

[jimo746]

Re:

I can't think of many true mtb innovations, almost everything had been tried before on different bikes, in different places, at different times.

My two main ones would be bringing suspension to the mtb masses, and also disc brakes.

 

[danson67]

OK, here goes...

Not entirely true that oval rings aren't seen anymore (or that they were an invention from mountainbiking).

Rotor, O-symmetric and KCNC just to mention a few.
They turn up on roadbikes fairly often and have been knocking around for a more than a century (1890?).

Front derailleurs never work well with them because of the varying chain to ring gap screws up shifting a bit, so with the current 1x whatever fashion (off and on road) they might see a resurgence. However, they're not good with clutch mechs or possible with belt drives, so the big wads and hipsters can't use them.

The Shimano idea on their sub-square Biopace system was completely different to the elliptical rings from Egg Rings etc.. Shimano thought that to lower gearing just before the power stroke would speed up the rider's leg without additional physical effort from the rider. The added momentum would help past the deadspots.
Hence the tooth count being the same as their equivalent round ring, and the size difference between long and short axes being the same on all sizes of ring.
Unfortunately the poor idea, backed up with plenty of marketing money, tarnished the whole oval ring idea for a generation.

True elliptical and the various ovalish rings are designed to give a higher gear in the power stroke and a lower gear in the deadspots. This keeps power smoother throughout the pedal cycle. They usually can be run with 2-4 teeth larger than round ring. Different size rings run the same % difference from long to short axes, generally only 10 to 15% on roadbikes. If you can feel a pulsing sensation as you pedal, or the chain loses tension and slaps a bit, the alignment of the ellipse axis needs adjusting.

Higher % ellipses (20 - 40%) are used on some cross country bikes (notably Clelands) to have better power output and control of traction. They can be clearly felt with a sensation more like walking...power...off...power..off... etc.

The lack of movement at the rear derailleur with Biopace is down to the effective 4 corners on the ring and lower range % rather than the 2 clear peaks of the higher % elliptical rings.

More info on this stuff at :Chris Bell's site for a start.

All the best,

 

[Fudd]

Chris Bell's Egg Rings had been around for a while before Biopace. The main difference was in the orientation - Egg Rings utilised the dead spot in the cranks revolution. Not sure what Shimano were thinking, though, cos their rings were oriented round another 90 degrees. But neither design is seen on bikes these days, so that's probably a fair indication of their effectiveness!

You'll still find a few people persevering with oval rings to this day and some are even doing alright in races with them -

 

[Ductape]

Currently have Rotor rings on my WTB Phoenix, and Willits New Sheriff. Great stuff, far from dead.