Modern Clelands

[GrahamJohnWallace]

"Email from Brant Richards: let’s produce a limited edition of, say, 100? Yes? Design us the frame, then… (Geoff Apps - 2010)"

Geoff Apps, the Father of the English Mountain Biking and founder of Cleland Cycles, is back with a thoroughly modern take on his classic Aventura design and the original 29er.

Geoff Apps has recently posted the following on the new Cleland' website:

"Pre-order

There is a distinct possibility that there will be a limited edition production run of the Aventura design.

The probability that there will be three models, yet to be named:

1) A relatively heavy model based on the specification of the AventuraTT. It is hoped that this will cost well below £1000.

2) A lighter model more like the AventuraII. This will probably have a price tag of between £1000 and £1,500.

3) An expensive and lightweight model with disc brakes, possibly Alfine or Rolhoff gears, Schmitt front hub, etc. Difficult to estimate the costs, but between £2,500 and £3,500.

All will have the same frame, which may come in different sizes, or it may be a one-size frame with fitting by adjusting the saddle and handlebars.

This is all very tentative at the moment, but it would really help matters if anyone who feels they would consider buying one, without obligation, to let us know by way of the comments box below… "



http://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/pre-order/
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So all being well, The Cleland is to be reborn.
For the first time in over 26 years it will be possible to buy a bicycle that is specifically designed for use in the British climate whatever the weather.

This rebirth has been an open secret in Cleland circles for several months, and the process of tracking down and testing the very best of reliable modern components, is well underway.

 

[highlandsflyer]

Interesting.

 

[GrahamJohnWallace]

The date of the 2010 Annual Cleland ride is Sunday 5th December 2010. Retrobikers welcome!

We meet at the ‘Le Petit Cafe’ Wendover, Buckinghamshire, between 10am and 10:30am (Used to be called The Landon Tearooms and is situated at the top of Wendover high St.)

There is plenty of parking nearby or at the Wendover Library car park.
Alternatively there is the train to Wendover station, with trains from London, Aylesbury and beyond.

This is a completely informal event, with no need to register, or anything like that. Just turn up with your mountain bike, or Cleland, or home-brewed lash-up, an open mind and not too competitive a spirit.

The pace is generally quite slow, with frequent stops for the younger riders to catch up with the pensioners! Although slow, the going can sometimes be quite challenging, involving lots of mud and as many bumps as we can find. One or more of the stops may involve messing around on an impromptu ‘trials section’, another will be for lunch at one of the hilltop pubs.

We should reach the Cafe in the Forest, at the top of Wendover Woods in time for tea, about 4pm. After this we turn our lights on (or not, sometimes) and take the descent back down to Wendover in darkness.

http://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/weekend-rides/

...or P.M. me for more details.

 

[DM]

Re-issued / re-worked Clelend?
Interested.

I think the whole site somehow overlooked the above hint of a re-issued Cleland design collaboration with Brant Richards.

The recent webcast by Brant on his Shedfire blog seems to have revived interest. And, sadly, some mud-slinging.
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=127692

But at least that thread has led me back here.
I'd like to express my interest in a Cleland frame & fork.

I already have my preferences for other parts & am likely to be getting an 11-sped Alfine hub well before (if) the Clelands are available. So a frame & fork package would work best for me to transfer parts across from my existing 29er. Unless it's decided to bundle additional specific parts like bars / stem etc.

Thanks.

 

[GrahamJohnWallace]

Ho DM,

Thanks for the link.

I set up this thread so that RetroBike members could comment and so influence the development of these new Clelands. So far there the contributions have been few, which is a shame because this is an opportunity for RetroBikers to influence the future of bicycle design. We need to get this design right and so welcome both negative and positive comments.

Tell us why you would want a Cleland style bike and how you intend to use it, and that may help us to get the marketing right. Tell us about the components you would want on a Cleland and we may be persuaded to make a similarly spec'd model that would save people money.

The Cleland riding experience is very different to that of a mountainbike, and assertions that they are slow and un-suitable for young riders are incorrect and misinformed. They are, in the right hands, surprisingly swift and far too much fun for us old riders to keep them to ourselves.

Think BMX, only bigger!

Comments can also be made on the Cleland website below:

http://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/pre-order/

 

[highlandsflyer]

Are you considering electrically assisted?

 

[GrahamJohnWallace]

Are you considering electrically assisted?

Geoff is interested in the possibilities of electric assist and Dave Wrath-Sharman has a recumbent that is assisted by a very small petrol engine, which weighs far less than battery powered electric drive systems and has a far greater range. The use of petrol assisted bikes for road use is at present heavily restricted in the UK.

Several electric powered trials and motor-cross bikes have been developed.
Their quiet operation makes them more suitable for use in the countryside.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bni45TKUrA

However, at the moment we do not have any plans for an electric assist Cleland.

PS. If getting up hills is the problem elliptical chainrings are a big help.
As with them you ride up more slowly and so are less likely to run out of leg power or lung power.

 

[doctor-bond]

GJW - I admire your dedication to these bikes and would like to see them born again, but I suspect you've got an uphill struggle. Here's my take which I hope is useful:

I've been mountain biking since 1986, have never ridden suspension, have done a bit of MTB touring, have been following retrobike for a few years, and am approaching middle age and decent earning power - so I ought to be bang in the middle of your target buyer range.

I was extremely tempted by the early Highpath that was offered for sale recently and love their attention to engineering detail. But what really appeals is their place in mountain bike history: early uk bikes that never caught on but were obviously well thought out; a million times more interesting than most bikes.

Yet they're intersting largely because they occupy that missing-link space in the MTB chronology and I don't think I'd stump up for a new one.

I suspect the problem is that I can't easily see what it is that they will be offering over a retro MTB or a decent modern.

Now, as I've never ridden one, this must be down to perception, or branding, but the Cleland's strength seems to be that it's good at moving steadily uphill through muddy conditions. It's not a light weight racer or a downhill monster but it will get you there. That's laudable but not very exciting.

I think the secret to getting this off the ground is to be very specific about what the bikes are for. And on reflection, I'd emphasise the expedition angle. After all, people pay huge sums for very ordinary Thorns, and expedition people like attention to detail and favour function over form.

You should offer something that is so well thought out and of such high quality that people will queue up for it, and leave handsome deposits while they await delivery. Look at the Rivendell business model: a few hand made super customs, more quality Japanese built frames, loads of very seductive accessories and component choices (even string!).

So:

Flexible luggage mounts but keep that lovely welded tube rack look. Get tie ins with quality luggage manufacturers.

Drum brake and hub gear options.

Decide what it's called: is it a Clelland? A Highpath? A Geoff Apps?

Brooks saddles, cork grips clever lighting.

Nitto. Loads of bar options. A compass holder.

Excellent frame joins. Sweet Lugs? A fillet option.

Major on frame material: I'd go for heat treated and stainless (953).

Quality replaceable bearings.

A well thought out and copy-heavy web site. Devote pages to ergonomics and the importance of why tyre choice is the key to designing a bike.

A tour of Iceland and writeup. Pictures along Hadrian's Wall. Specialise in aiming them at the coast to coast crowd.

Trailer options.

Get a few people riding samples and talking about them online.


Good luck.

 

[GrahamJohnWallace]

Now, as I've never ridden one, this must be down to perception, or branding, but the Cleland's strength seems to be that it's good at moving steadily uphill through muddy conditions. It's not a light weight racer or a downhill monster but it will get you there. That's laudable but not very exciting.

I think the secret to getting this off the ground is to be very specific about what the bikes are for. And on reflection, I'd emphasise the expedition angle. After all, people pay huge sums for very ordinary Thorns, and expedition people like attention to detail and favour function over form.

Hi Dr Bond, thanks for your thoughtful comments, they are much appreciated.

The precise reason why I promote these bikes is because I love riding them. Not only are they great fun to ride but the experience is very different to the point of being addictive. I love the ultra smooth feel of the low pressure tyres and the experience of standing bolt upright, "on the pegs" whilst the bike seesaws beneath your feet.

But how do you market this alternative experience?

Best we can do is make the bikes appealing in other ways and then purchasers can be surprised that what they have bought is more than the sum of the parts. The biggest hurdle is that people assume that because they are upright, they must be slow when in reality the only time they struggle to keep up with mountain bikes is on hills, because the old Clelands weigh more. So it looks like we will be limited to selling to riders who are not speed obsessed.

At the moment, the "Country Gentleman's bicycle" marketing approach is looking most hopeful. This may appeal to people are not impressed by the race inspired cycling mainstream. It would also establish these bikes as a seriously alternative lifestyle choice and also generate some non cycling press publicity.

This would probably require that we retro-style the bikes and also launch the expensive high spec models first.


:?:

 

[swizz69]

Re: the Highpath Big Blue.

Did David W.S get his inspiration for the unusual frame layout from the Raleigh Cross?