Mangizmos "Rant Of The Day"

[d8mok]

I realised (of course) that bikes in the 50s and 60s didnt have brazed on mounts, actually thats the point, back when I started almost all bikes needed clamps for everything, bottle cages, carriers, cable routing. The higher end custom built frames had such luxuries and looked neater for it, no ugly clamps. Then later and especially when mountain bikes came in, canti bosses, cable stops, bottle cage mounts were all nicely incorporated even on low end cheapo frames. My point is that since carrier mounts became standard on almost all frames regardless of price......why remove them ? even if you dont think you will use them, one day you may....more options are better surely, removing them, especially from a bike that may very well be used to carry gear seems a backward step to me, they dont add weight and they dont detract from the looks

As mentioned prior but I’m not sure it’s going in ……It’s not the weight of the mount that prevents this. It’s the added material which the frame would need to have the strength to have the weight of whatever the person planned to carry.

Someone buying a lightweight frame doesn’t want an extra 100g adding because the chain stays have to strengthened for the 1 customer out of 1000000 which wanted to carry a tent on their Dogma. Start adding carrier points and manufacturers have to make sure the frame can withstand it and literally nobody wants them on such bikes anyway.

Manufacturers tailor the product to the consumer they expect to buy it. You are not that consumer.

If you want a touring bike with mounts then buy that. If you want a lightweight race bike then don’t expect it to be able to carry 25kg of crap.

It’s really not that hard to understand

 

[Mangizmo]

As mentioned prior but I’m not sure it’s going in ……It’s not the weight of the mount that prevents this. It’s the added material which the frame would need to have the strength to have the weight of whatever the person planned to carry.

Someone buying a lightweight frame doesn’t want an extra 100g adding because the chain stays have to strengthened for the 1 customer out of 1000000 which wanted to carry a tent on their Dogma. Start adding carrier points and manufacturers have to make sure the frame can withstand it and literally nobody wants them on such bikes anyway.

Manufacturers tailor the product to the consumer they expect to buy it. You are not that consumer.

If you want a touring bike with mounts then buy that. If you want a lightweight race bike then don’t expect it to be able to carry 25kg of crap.

It’s really not that hard to understand

I could discuss this, but you seem determined to argue "ie I'm not sure its going in", and "wtf" etc. our conversation will degenerate into a squabble so I will leave it at that thanks

 

[d8mok]

There’s no squabble. Happy to discuss if you can provide any valid points….

You just seem to keep making the same comments over and over about bikes not suiting your needs or having mounts. I’m simply adding logic to your post as to why.

Pop into the local McLaren dealer and ask why you can’t fit a pram / 5 kids and dog in their cars

 

[CassidyAce]

@Mangizmo I have some sympathy with what you're saying and enjoyed the rant. But using bikes that cost £9K or £10k as your point of reference is to use an extreme for a point of comparison. That's the top end of the market and the volume of sales will be a small fraction of the sales of bikes costing much less. As with many products, too, there will be diminishing marginal benefits for each extra £1 spent as we approach the top end. But, equally, there is a sweet spot that balances economy and quality further down the scale, although it won't be exactly the same sweet spot for everyone.

It seems to me that there is a range in the £1k-£1.5k bracket that offers reasonable quality for the price. This would be 2 x 10 (not 1x) and GRX400 level, which I believe is roughly the same quality as Tiagra or Deore, i.e. somewhere in the middle of the range, good for daily use, and just fine for middle-aged, non-competitive riding around the countryside. When I compare a reasonable quality bike like that, for £1k-£1.5k, with many other current costs—council tax, bills, groceries—it doesn't seem like such bad value. It seems pretty good, in fact. Having said that, the value does seem dependent on brand. Cube, Ribble, Sonder and others appear to be offering better value than the likes of Orbea.

 

[legrandefromage]

interestingly, the McLaren F1 road car had the same boot space as the contemporary Fiesta and could seat three , currently selling for around £18, 000,000 so I dont think Thule do a roof rack mount for it. Halfords may try and fit a top box though

mildly interestingly I did get to go in the orange press car - which was nice

mildly interestingly interesting, I still have Gordon Murrays hifi amplifier here, long story....!

...and if you are still reading, I once had to pack the F1 drivers world championship trophy into its box, lifted a display MP4/13 through some narrow double doors, had lunch with Mansour Ojjeh at his home on lake Geneva plus all sorts of other shenanigans (but not all on the same day - that would be silly)

brazons shmazons!

 

[Madmax1993]

The vast majority are over £2000 it seems

That is largely inaccurate assumption/generalisation. There are lots of gravel bikes that are sub £2000.
The 'defining characteristics' you mentioned that you hate are not 'the' defining traits of gravel/adventure bikes. I think if you skip the marketing hype, the actual ethos of them is thus:

Stronger than road bikes
More comfortable for long days in the saddle thanks to relaxed geometry.
Wider tyres
Some have wider drop bars, with ergonomic flare (something you profess to like)
Some have 'alt' style riser bars
Most cheaper ones (sub £2000) do have rack and mudguard mounts.
They're a good jack-of-all-trades for urban commuting, mile-munching, sportive rides, bike packing (or as it used to be called: touring), the list goes on...

You've chosen to base your opinions on the very expensive end of the gravel spectrum, but that is not representative of the wider type of bike.

 

[Madmax1993]

aren't those external bearing cranksets prone to creaking more than my back creaks trying to use a cotter pin press?

Nope, that's press fit that does that. Shimano's hollowtech II has beefy axle advantages, reasonably sized bearings and inexpensive replacement bearing cartridges.

 

[Mangizmo]

That is largely inaccurate assumption/generalisation. There are lots of gravel bikes that are sub £2000.
The 'defining characteristics' you mentioned that you hate are not 'the' defining traits of gravel/adventure bikes. I think if you skip the marketing hype, the actual ethos of them is thus:

Stronger than road bikes
More comfortable for long days in the saddle thanks to relaxed geometry.
Wider tyres
Some have wider drop bars, with ergonomic flare (something you profess to like)
Some have 'alt' style riser bars
Most cheaper ones (sub £2000) do have rack and mudguard mounts.
They're a good jack-of-all-trades for urban commuting, mile-munching, sportive rides, bike packing (or as it used to be called: touring), the list goes on...

You've chosen to base your opinions on the very expensive end of the gravel spectrum, but that is not representative of the wider type of bike.

Yes currently checking the market, there are indeed less expensive bikes coming onto the market, fixing points are essential for me, I will need a bike for the Dartmoor classic but suspicious about whether 1X would give me the range and replacement costs, I really don't want to waste money on a road bike, but I may have to buy a used one and then sell it after the event

 

[Madmax1993]

Yes currently checking the market, there are indeed less expensive bikes coming onto the market, fixing points are essential for me, I will need a bike for the Dartmoor classic but suspicious about whether 1X would give me the range and replacement costs, I really don't want to waste money on a road bike, but I may have to buy a used one and then sell it after the event

https://www.halfords.com/bikes/adve...nture-bike-2021---s-m-l-xl-frames-389606.htmlYou've already said you have nothing against Halfords offerings, so I would say you could do a lot worse than this. Mudguards and rack mounts, widish tyres etc. I'd run a 28mm road tyre for sportive events etc, and the standard 38mm tyres for everything else.
It's 2x10 so bridges the gap between road and extreme gravel.

 

[Mangizmo]

https://www.halfords.com/bikes/adve...nture-bike-2021---s-m-l-xl-frames-389606.htmlYou've already said you have nothing against Halfords offerings, so I would say you could do a lot worse than this. Mudguards and rack mounts, widish tyres etc. I'd run a 28mm road tyre for sportive events etc, and the standard 38mm tyres for everything else.
It's 2x10 so bridges the gap between road and extreme gravel.

Thanks, I will deffo take a look at that one, I do actually rate Halfords gear in general, not rip off merchants at all