Making a 'profit'

[BarneyRubble]

But why should he not cover his costs? Is that wrong?

I'm not sure I understand your point here.

It was hyperbole.

The ultimate outcome was that at one point the part would reach a maximum market value and whoever held the part would be forced to absorb their costs if they wanted to sell it. But this was fine as long as ot wasn't him (or me, or you, or whoever - who wants to be the one to lose money?).

I didn't have a point, I was just highlighting what I perceived as the humour in his logic. But I'm probably not very funny.

I too saw the humour. I think it is worth making the point that in the example given of £25 becoming £35 for the wheel, it is fair to say that if the buyer could arrange to collect the item or was local, most people would be happy to sell at the £25 price they paid. It is the time and cost involved with packing and standing in a massive queue at the PO that makes people add that sort of margin for postage.

I try to be fair and charge the actual cost for post based on my highly unscientific method - Guessing. Sometimes it is a little high but mostly spot on. However if someone wants to come and pick it up I'll gladly sell for less.

The actual item isn't really going up in value, it is the postage costs being acrued. If the original owner sold to someone local the price might have been £20, if he sold local it probably would have stayed £20.

Just a thought.

 

[brocklanders023]

My real gripe relates to the ever increasing price of parts traded within RB, not because they are getting rarer but because a little gets added to the asking price each time...

Just as an example...

I buy a pair of wheels for £25 posted. If I then decide I don't want them, to sell them at £25 posted I am making a loss of at least £10. So to break even I sell them for £35.

What's wrong with that? Someone else might have really wanted them and think they're a bargain, and I haven't subsidised them out of my own pocket. So long as you don't tell lies and try to pass things off as different or better than they are, I really can't see a problem.

I agree, the particular instance we're talking about could seem a bit sneaky if you looked at it in a certain way, but it will catch up with the seller because he won't be able to sell his bike, or eventually any of his stuff.

Exactly how I feel. The part will reach it's natural high and then that's that. Most of my bits will be back on sale for the price I payed + postage cost but I also expect people to haggle so chances are I'll end up slightly out of pocket. The occasional ebay bargain brings everything level again, or at least it does with me.

All the money I've spent on retro bikes comes from the sale of my retro r/c buggies. Money spent goes out, money from sales goes in the pot. I'm about even, if not a little down but I'm not in it for money, I'm in it as a hobby.

 

[legrandefromage]

I got the karma claud butler frame cheap - lavished lots of work and parts to make it nice, took it for a spin - it was too bloody small...

I sold it - it covered costs and a bit extra to buy something else - I did feel a bit awkward though. :cry:

why? is it my old frame? - the person i got it off was happy, they know what happened to it and didnt care - i offered them the cash. i was happy to sell it to you for that chocolate cake. you spent time and money on it and sold it on at a price i'm assuming the purchaser was happy with. everyones happy!

if it wasnt my old frame ignore that but the logic applies.

cool - the new owner was extatic over it so something went right

 

[Dead Rats]

I agree with much of this thread and FWIW I have made losses and profits from bikes and their parts as I'm sure anyone on here who ever charges for their time n services has... for a long time I just got old bikes and did them up for cost / fixed mates bike for free. As time has gone by I've upped my charges a wee bit and got hold of parts a little cheaper, which has allowed me a little leeway to spend more on here, do better mates rates, have a bit better bikes and not worry about losing out here n there.

As well as gratefully accepting the odd Karma donation I've donated some back too, though I probably owe a bit more than I've had. Times are quite hard but you just know yourself if something you're thinking of doing to make a buck is morally wrong - your conscience prevents you doing it.

Having said that I am not ashamed of having marked up the odd part, if you set yourself up as offering a service (to non-members) then as has been mentioned it's you taking the risks, spending time running through the minefield of eBay only to buy a bent frame or incorrect item in general. But eBay has also been a goldmine to me a few times (ie buying complete bike and selling some flight-deck levers for more than the bike cost worth).

Retrobike has been a very refreshing and knowledge building experience for me and you can pretty much trust everyone on here to do the right thing

Incidentally my for sale threads have gone from my sig because I need to re-do them, loads have sold, the rest is on eBay. I sell everything on here cheaper than eBay

 

[dyna-ti]

i saw the hunour

I missed it :shock:
---------------------
But if we're having a general 'clear the air' type rant,then i'd like to get something off my chest,This being that I get most upset by the sellers that dont clean the parts they send you :x .
I dont mind a slight mark up if you've spent time stripping ,servicing ,then cleaning it or polishing it.
But to send it all yucky and oily :roll: Unforgivable.

I challenge anybody to say they bought stuff off me wasnt cleaned thoroughly. :?

 

[Agency_Scum]

Why are we such daft guilt-ridden buggers about making money?

Q: How much did you pay for this originally?

A: The tone of your morally-affronted question makes me reluctant to tell you the stoooopid cheap price I paid for this ( now " reasonably-priced " ) component.

Then there's the jealousy factor of loudmouths like me getting in there with a " buy-now-think-later " attitude.

Let's just enjoy ourselves and buy and sell stuff!

 

[Neil]

I guess all I wanted to say is I get the whole community thing - and not exploiting a situation where many benefit from the goodwill of others. I also understand covering costs, and I understand people out for a profit and that whole "Do it to them, before they do it to you..." mentality. And in general life and commerce that's quite understandable.

But when it occurs within the bounds of retrobike, it just seems, well, off a bit. A fair price is a fair price - and I'm not trying to suggest anything otherwise, but there is also a community here. Especially when I see so many people helping others out, either for free, or very little.

I guess when people who are largely outside of the community, use Retrobike to make a fast buck, you can see the logic - I'm not saying it's necessarily agreeable, but you can understand the thinking. But when people within the community use it in such a way, it seems a bit more predatory, really.

I have an analogy - it's probably long and waffly, but stay with it, I'm going somewhere...

A bit over a decade, now, and I joined a technical community (essentially an email list / forum), that was for (then) a niche and new type of technology. And as a result, many implementors struggled and innovated in making the technology work well. This community flourished, and technical innovation and know-how spread throughout the community, by merit of the contributors (me included) being willing to share their knowledge and expertise, purely for the good of the community.

Over the years, the forum was hosted by various providers, and attracted some commercial interests, as well as "sponsors" of a kind. As somebody who was very active, and contributed a lot in terms of help, advice, solutions and code, I wasn't alone. Over time, commercial "contributors" became active within the forum - some were helpful, and their contributions extended beyond simply advocating the technology or product they / their company sold. Some didn't.

And on occasion, I pointed that out - this was a community that flourished because of the altruistic exchange of knowledge, ideas and expertise of people who'd been involved for sometime, who selflessly helped others for the good of the community. And because of the degree of expertise that was there, and the subject matter, it attracted many who were involved in the technology. However, over time, there were (albeit a small amount) of predatory contributors who were only there, really, to leech from the community - all they contributed was advocacy of their product. To my mind, that went against the ethos of the community - because whilst I understand that money is money, and business is business, that community only reached the size and excellence it did, because of the people who contributed their help and ideas purely for the benefit of the community. So whilst the community had got to the stage where it needed the financial contributions of sponsors, the community only developed because of those that participated - and the ones that really participated, and made it a community, were the ones who contributed purely for the community.

I see some similarities here at Retrobike. Retrobike doesn't seem to me to simply be some commercial endeavour - like a specialist form of ebay. It appears to be a community of people who have a common interest. And whilst I don't expect that commerce is ever that far away, and that trading is a very natural occurence, it would be nice to think that some don't simply see it as a nice, easy and free means of making money off people who are here because of their interests. Because from where I'm sat, places like Retrobike get established, grow and flourish, fundamentally because of the common interest, sure the commerce has a place, but it's a means to an end, rather than an end in it's own right.

Now I'm not trying to suggest that people shouldn't try and cover their costs, or that they should trade selflessly. But I do think there's a difference - and I suspect people realise it - when they may also exploit a situation simply because they can. What's suprised me about this place - and I've not experienced it to the same degree anywhere else on t'internet - is the whole karma thing were so much is done just on a goodwill basis. When I see that, I find it hard to reggae with others kind of exploiting that ethos.

 

[clockworkgazz]

a very well put and eloquent post, almost a mission statement if you will, thanks for taking the time to put that down- enjoyed that read

 

[SeeingisBelievingGTMuseum]

I think what's funny is how many build up bikes hang on to them a short period of time and then split them apart and sell them and buy something else right away.....guessing your hobby is building and piecing together bikes then?...not collecting them. To me if you are into collecting bikes that means building a collection. I started with three bikes that were my riders, one was vintage, then built a collection to over 50 in about four years time and I can honestly say the collection didn't cost me a dime but in turn has become an investment that value wise has increased more than almost any other investment out there the past four years.

In the process I've helped many others with info, parts and mechanical service and others have dome the same for me and that's what makes this community great.

@Neil +2 bro, very well written. But I think since more have entered the vintage/retro bike community in the past few years the market has matured with more players seeking parts so prices have risen and held suprisingly up well to one of the biggest economic collapses on record. I continue to be amazed at what some of the older parts and frames sell for. It's both demand and emotion driven. Many of us that were young/er when mountain biking was in it's infancy are now near empty nester's with decent income and can now afford that bike we dreamed of owning in the "hey day" of the sport when all we could afford was a $300 dollar bike....so we Pay to Play. Most all of us have probably thought we overpaid for an item or two in time....but at the same time we've also underpaid.

 

[SF Klein]

To me as a relative newcomer, my comprehension from everything I've read on this site is that Retrobike, and it's contributors, are more into the accurate restoration and preservation of yesteryear's bicycles w/ a little bit of collecting thrown into the mix. As such, it makes total sense to me why someone might build up a bike and then move onto another project i.e. a project that needs restoration.

There's a TV show that just started airing here in the US but it's a British show called Wheeler Dealers. They do a similar thing - select an older car that stood out in its time for some reason, restore it to it's previous glory and then sell it off at a "profit". This profit however would actually be a loss if they didn't have a resident mechanic that performs all their mechanical & restoration work. They seem to genuinely love older cars and want to preserve the worthy ones vs. letting them slip into the scrap heap. I think there's a similar vibe here - at least to this member there is.