Lug and frame identification needed please.

[Spokesmann]

Re:

This frame is not immediately saying Carlton to me. The lugs look like vaguely modded/later Crespera or Bocama. The seat stay treatment would be wrap over, except for some of the higher end / later machines. At a guess, assuming its 531, it could be something similar to a late 70s/early 80s Criterium... It has no holes for a headset badge, as they were stickers by then.

The Thing that does not sit right is the Campag rear drop outs, the Crit has stamped types. The suggestion that this is a Worksop frame build up or ordered by another builder is a creditable one. Any original paint under the black gloop?

 

[Lackluster]

Re: Re:

This frame is not immediately saying Carlton to me. The lugs look like vaguely modded/later Crespera or Bocama. The seat stay treatment would be wrap over, except for some of the higher end / later machines. At a guess, assuming its 531, it could be something similar to a late 70s/early 80s Criterium... It has no holes for a headset badge, as they were stickers by then.

The Thing that does not sit right is the Campag rear drop outs, the Crit has stamped types. The suggestion that this is a Worksop frame build up or ordered by another builder is a creditable one. Any original paint under the black gloop?

Thanks for this response
It certainly is a mysterious frame. I agree with your comments about Carlton, my Cobra is a true example and has the wrap over seat stay. Maybe I will get more clues as it is going off for the paint strip this week. I cannot see any original paint under the black gloop and it certainly has no holes for a headset badge.
Thanks for your input.

 

[Lackluster]

Just a quick thread to say we attended the Manchester Velodrome Bike Jumble on Saturday and were surprised to see a newly painted red version of our frame it had exactly the same lugs including the evenly spaced pointed crown on the headset tube. It had Carlton decals and is the first frame we have found that is an exact duplication of ours even if it was a smaller frame size, it also had the same Suntour mechs. Unfortunately the stall-holder did not know the model, nor the history of the frame.
So our 'mystery' continues.

 

[Lackluster]

Latest update and my final decision reference this ‘Mystery’ frame. My speculating has gone on long enough!

Since purchasing this frame in September I have as you can see from this thread been trying to establish its true identity.

Why purchase a frame with no model decals in the first place?
After initially viewing the bike and noting its WS8 and six digit batch number on the BB, I was convinced that it was a genuine Worksop 1978 build, and thought that it would just be a simple job to establish the model, how wrong I was to be.

The bike was bought as a 40th birthday present for my son who had expressed an interest in our refurbishing it together, the frame appeared to have been made in the year he was born. His intention has always been to keep it and use it as a comparable ride to his more modern carbon racing bike.

After 4months of intensive investigative work, internet searches and much help and conjecture from members on this site, we are finally having to go with a consensus of opinion that it is an unbadged Competition model. Unfortunately around this time 78-81 I understand that the Worksop factory was going through many changes, and no defined frame and batch numbers were directly linked to models which would have made my job of identification that much easier.
I have in the last few days spoken to a number of people some of whom were involved/worked at Worksop and they seem to lean heavily towards it being a Competition frame. A lot of the components ie mechs, freewheel and wheels appear to show on the Record Ace model, but the frame is definitely a 24.5” and almost certainly a Competition. Evidently a lot of components were interchanged around that time and the frame appears to have been built up by an outside cycle shop to an individual customers specific requirements.

So what now….
Well the frame has been stripped and sent to have some new chrome applied to the rear end of the stays. The Campag dropouts will be polished before the remaining frame is resprayed black as no trace of any other colour was found on the frame. The nice lugs will be gold lined and the forks which do not appear to be original will be shoulder painted black and the lower section left chrome which is still in excellent condition. All the ‘bits’ have now been thoroughly stripped, cleaned and polished by my son and will be carefully refitted when the frame returns.

We will post a final photo when the restoration/refurbishment is complete which will now be in the Spring, so thanks to all who have contributed to this thread and a Happy New Year to all.

 

[AndyMart]

Re:

Looks very like a Carlton competition to me. Check the 77/8 catalogue online. Was sold as a frameset in blue or red.

 

[AndyMart]

Lilac in 77

 

[Lackluster]

Re: Re:

Looks very like a Carlton competition to me. Check the 77/8 catalogue online. Was sold as a frameset in blue or red.

Thanks for the above info, also found some info on this 1979 listing. Shows Competition GS in Black. Not saying ours is a GS!

Congrats again to you on our joint RBotM winners August 2018 we should get our banners sometime soon.

 

[AndyMart]

Re:

Think the gs was an export model, those us catalogs differ greatly to UK products. ;-)

 

[Lackluster]

Re: Re:

Think the gs was an export model, those us catalogs differ greatly to UK products. ;-)

Ok thanks.

 

[Peachy!]

I'd dress it as a Black GS, that Lilac's awful! but at least you've got a steer decal wise....