Look Fournales Shock_ need help
- Thread starter mherweg
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Uneasyrider
Retro Newbie
Re: Zombie Thread
Just wanted to thank Syncros fan for downloading the pix and I guess I will give a few tidbits I discovered also.
As Syncros said the top cap comes off easily. I did it with my neoprene gloved hands although there were a few turns necessary from a spanner a few threads up. When I dumped out the oil it only measured 15cc, I have the small version, so I thought it must have leaked a whole bunch although it never seemed to weep. I have been using this and another fork like it for the last 11 years btw and being a slouch never serviced them....
Anyway they came apart as shown but mine have a small bolt to index the bottom of the shock and I kind of tweaked it getting the bottom off as the shock turned some but it came back and I was more careful with the next one to hold the shock still. It is important to do the top bolt with pressure in the shock because it barely clears the strut btw.
I have a long moto background and in the past I used to use ATF for shock oil, it is about a 7.5, and so being a cheap ass I used some of that that I had on hand because I freaked on the price of a qt. of it at the bike shop. I only needed a little right?
It was clear to me that 47cc was going to be way to much so I had noted where the level of the old oil was and headed for that plus a little for good measure. It turned out to be 20cc. BTW I have an Ultimate work stand and it made a handy place to clamp the shock while filling, I would imagine any stand would work.
I put them all back together and pumped it up to my preferred 12bar and they work much better now. Especially the rebound although I didn't have the right bit to try and tighten it on hand. I run 14psi in my front tire so small bump compliance is not as much an issue and they seem to come on at about the right time after the tire has absorbed all it is going to.
As Syncrosfan pointed out they were billed as anti dive forks but they actually dive quite a bit under braking, but usually your weight is biased to the rear and the head tube angle doesn't change much like it does with a telescoping fork. It has never bothered me out on the trail. After all these years I know its limits and try not to exceed them.
The sharp of eye may notice that the fork is set up for 29" wheels. That is another story.
Just wanted to thank Syncros fan for downloading the pix and I guess I will give a few tidbits I discovered also.
As Syncros said the top cap comes off easily. I did it with my neoprene gloved hands although there were a few turns necessary from a spanner a few threads up. When I dumped out the oil it only measured 15cc, I have the small version, so I thought it must have leaked a whole bunch although it never seemed to weep. I have been using this and another fork like it for the last 11 years btw and being a slouch never serviced them....
Anyway they came apart as shown but mine have a small bolt to index the bottom of the shock and I kind of tweaked it getting the bottom off as the shock turned some but it came back and I was more careful with the next one to hold the shock still. It is important to do the top bolt with pressure in the shock because it barely clears the strut btw.
I have a long moto background and in the past I used to use ATF for shock oil, it is about a 7.5, and so being a cheap ass I used some of that that I had on hand because I freaked on the price of a qt. of it at the bike shop. I only needed a little right?
It was clear to me that 47cc was going to be way to much so I had noted where the level of the old oil was and headed for that plus a little for good measure. It turned out to be 20cc. BTW I have an Ultimate work stand and it made a handy place to clamp the shock while filling, I would imagine any stand would work.
I put them all back together and pumped it up to my preferred 12bar and they work much better now. Especially the rebound although I didn't have the right bit to try and tighten it on hand. I run 14psi in my front tire so small bump compliance is not as much an issue and they seem to come on at about the right time after the tire has absorbed all it is going to.
As Syncrosfan pointed out they were billed as anti dive forks but they actually dive quite a bit under braking, but usually your weight is biased to the rear and the head tube angle doesn't change much like it does with a telescoping fork. It has never bothered me out on the trail. After all these years I know its limits and try not to exceed them.
The sharp of eye may notice that the fork is set up for 29" wheels. That is another story.
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syncrosfan
Senior Retro Guru
Did you do the 29er conversion yourself? The dropouts are indeed extended compared to the original fork.
Coincidentally the very first 29er fork was a modified Fournales as well. In the early stages when Gary Fisher was experimenting around with 29er wheels, there were no suspension forks available for those wheels, and regular telescopic forks were too difficult to modify, so he chose the extended legs Fournales fork to use it for the prototype frames. I've also seen a modified Fournales with custom extra wide linkages adapted to fit Fatbike tires. (again before Fatbike forks were widely available).
Coincidentally the very first 29er fork was a modified Fournales as well. In the early stages when Gary Fisher was experimenting around with 29er wheels, there were no suspension forks available for those wheels, and regular telescopic forks were too difficult to modify, so he chose the extended legs Fournales fork to use it for the prototype frames. I've also seen a modified Fournales with custom extra wide linkages adapted to fit Fatbike tires. (again before Fatbike forks were widely available).
Uneasyrider
Retro Newbie
syncrosfan":siralo8k said:
Actually not counting the early 90's Manitou 700c, which would run with a Nano, the first converted 29"er sus forks were made by Wes Williams of Willits Brand. They were based on AMP crowns with Ti legs, the first one with an F2 and rim brakes and then a F4 with a disc brake mount. After that mount failed it led Wes to design the one that Paragon sells today. It was made in August of 1999 to go on a Ti FS bike that had an AMP based rear end also.
At the show that year Willits showed 5 different shock forks which all predate the Fournales that Potts modified for Gary. Tom Rogers @ Manitou also had some shocks made that he had at the dirt demo that year in Blue Diamond and there was a White Bros there also.
These were modified by Scott Quiring in '95. Along with making new drop outs he also discovered that the rake angle was only like 40 so he made new ones that increased that. Not all disc brakes work with the mounts however which we never got around to making new ones of those.
Because few 26" bikes of that era, not to mention that these forks were 1100EU off the shelf, had 4" head tubes that the small size was made for. But plenty of 29"ers did so after production stopped a guy in the Nederlands bought a bunch of them and was flogging them on eBay and I got a dozen of them off of him years ago. Still have a few at Q's that didn't get all the way done and the two I use and one on the x's bike. I'm sure they don't stack up to the modern shocks out there but they are sufficient for my needs.
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syncrosfan
Senior Retro Guru
Great write-up on early 29er suspension. I'm a 26 only kind of guy so I didn't get too much into the history of 29ers. I do remember reading about a modified Fournales fork for Gary Fisher in the early days of 29er development. Makes sense that an AMP fork would work as well.
Uneasyrider
Retro Newbie
Re:
This bike has the Manitou 700c that was made available in the early 90's that just happened to be on closeout @ $25/ (Wes bought them all) at the time the Nanoraptor came along in the spring of 99' when this picture was taken.
They weren't the best forks for sure but most bike concepts start with found parts from somewhere and develop off that eh? Much like 36h touring rims were the first rims to be used until better options were made available. That Ti FS had Mavic T223's which were even disc specific, heady stuff for 1999.
Fournales was contacted in the winter of 2000/01 about making some longer leg forks which they seemed amenable to. As things go they were never gotten back to until the fall of 2001 and they refused to even acknowledge that they had said they would do it. A little touchy about how the US handled 9/11 is the impression I got.
The first company to invest in new lower castings was Marzocchi in 2001 at the behest of once again Gary Fisher. He was a big influence on the industry and the UCI also in the early days of 29" wheels.
This bike has the Manitou 700c that was made available in the early 90's that just happened to be on closeout @ $25/ (Wes bought them all) at the time the Nanoraptor came along in the spring of 99' when this picture was taken.
They weren't the best forks for sure but most bike concepts start with found parts from somewhere and develop off that eh? Much like 36h touring rims were the first rims to be used until better options were made available. That Ti FS had Mavic T223's which were even disc specific, heady stuff for 1999.
Fournales was contacted in the winter of 2000/01 about making some longer leg forks which they seemed amenable to. As things go they were never gotten back to until the fall of 2001 and they refused to even acknowledge that they had said they would do it. A little touchy about how the US handled 9/11 is the impression I got.
The first company to invest in new lower castings was Marzocchi in 2001 at the behest of once again Gary Fisher. He was a big influence on the industry and the UCI also in the early days of 29" wheels.
