Late 40s / Early 50s René Herse tip find

[MatBH5]

TA used a larger diameter threaded crank remover. I’m not sure if they might help here? I have one you could borrow for return postage costs.

 

[Jonny69]

That looks like for a large majority of it's life it was well cared for, which would make sense given how much it must have cost new. Lovely lovely thing.

Yeah I agree.

The pics make the frame and fork look crustier than it actually is, but with the majority of everything else being aluminium it’ll just polish back up.

 

[Jonny69]

TA used a larger diameter threaded crank remover. I’m not sure if they might help here? I have one you could borrow for return postage costs.

Ooh, I didn’t know that. I may take you up on that offer - thanks. I’m a tiny bit nervous about trying a conventional puller because the threads look a bit delicate and if I can get it off initially without pulling the threads out I’d rather do that. I’ll take a measurement next time I’m round there and let you know

 

[Woz]

Excellent stuff @Jonny69 !!! Still can't get over it's best to go to a tip in England for a top-end French bike

OLN spacing will most likely be around 118mm for 4 speed and 96mm for the fork. Hub axle diameters smaller too; so absolutely try to salvage the hubs.

Stronglight used a larger still crank extractor thread different again to TA. Stronglight invented the square taper, and I do not know who made these cranks for RH. Period wise, it's early for square taper so yeah, proceed with caution.

I'm very very surprised at the seat-post diameter. Seat-tubes have been fairly standard at 28mm OD - a seat-post with a diameter of 26.2mm usually indicates a lightweight frame, and 25mm errr ..... not lightweight.

Is there not a seat-post shim in there? Would be about 45 - 50mm long. Or did RH actually braze-in something which is the butting you are talking about?

Frame number could be anywhere. Rear drop-outs (inside or out) or top of seat-stays too was fairly common.

You can expect loose balls in the headset. French headsets have a wonderful locking mechanism, and typically no spanner flats except for the very top locknut.

Fingers crossed for you the frame is in good condition

 

[Jonny69]

OLN spacing will most likely be around 118mm for 4 speed and 96mm for the fork. Hub axle diameters smaller too; so absolutely try to salvage the hubs.

That spacing looks about right. I measured 118mm and 98mm so that’s about the same. Axle diameters are 9.5mm rear and 8mm front. No issues with the hubs and they spin smoothly, so they’re salvageable.

Stronglight used a larger still crank extractor thread different again to TA. Stronglight invented the square taper, and I do not know who made these cranks for RH. Period wise, it's early for square taper so yeah, proceed with caution.

The crank puller thread looks to be about 21.7mm ID and the pitch is around 1mm. Assuming it’s metric, is that going to be about M23x1?

I'm very very surprised at the seat-post diameter. Seat-tubes have been fairly standard at 28mm OD - a seat-post with a diameter of 26.2mm usually indicates a lightweight frame, and 25mm errr ..... not lightweight.

Is there not a seat-post shim in there? Would be about 45 - 50mm long. Or did RH actually braze-in something which is the butting you are talking about?

It doesn’t seem to be a shim. It is about 45mm long and it’s quite a step though. I’ll try and measure the tube ID with some outside callipers.

The seatpost clamp is a little squeezed closed but it basically measures up like it’s still round and opening it up would never open it up as big as 26.2mm. I’m not sure if it’s the original seatpost. I’ll get a better idea when I clean it up and polish it. It does look like it has had some heat in that area, as it was slightly blackened around the seat cluster. The curious bit was there was no evidence of it at all on the seatpost itself, and the seatpost shows no signs of having moved for a very, very long time. So whatever that heat/blackening is, it didn’t happen with this seatpost in place.

Frame number could be anywhere. Rear drop-outs (inside or out) or top of seat-stays too was fairly common.

Had another look and couldn’t see anything!

You can expect loose balls in the headset. French headsets have a wonderful locking mechanism, and typically no spanner flats except for the very top locknut.

No spanner flats at all - it’s a pin spanner fitting on the top nut!

Fingers crossed for you the frame is in good condition

Like I said earlier, it’s a bit crusty on the outside but feels completely sound! It’ll look much better after a rub down with foil and WD40, but I’m not expecting much of the chrome to remain adhered.

 

[Woz]

Top stuff Sir!

I'll do my best to help. I'm on the other side of the cheddar cheese Iron Curtain border.

In your hands, you have piece of a) cycling history b) proper real manufacture French cycling history. c) someone in the UK riding this thing!

I'm a Brit living in France. From my own excursion into high end stuff lucky finds - but not on this level which you have - document as much as you can / everything. This bike is a in a magic period. No doubt, no question this is a bike from where it was happening. The epi-center of French cycle culture got superseaded with Italian or .... sold of off shore some XX years afters.

It's the birth of the bikes we know today. It's a magical period where oddly, it's the tourists and randonneurs at the pinnacle of tech and know how and not racer boys. It's such an amazing period - I'm pretty certain Mavic never offered a 700c version of the tyre compatible rim you have. In fact, just word "Criterium" is worth looking up. From a French definition, it more or less means a competition with no world championships. It's high end for those wanting more.

The French have mixed feelings about their bike heritage, which in my own opinion were slow to catch on too and realise, that their history and version of history is also off shored. Personally, I think the history of the French bicycle industry is the most tragic in the history of cycling. Everything is reduced to be obsolete and forgotten because it's not compatible. Like I say, I feel it is the most tragic. You have people who sweated blood for perfection on many levels but got superseded and almost forgotten because of a daft 0.1 - 0.4mm differences. The 50s I think displays a wonderful exuberance and confidence. It's like you look at a bike and think "yes". Geometry is getting nailed. Tubing is getting nailed. The bits and pieces are ..... bit's and pieces now but the fundamentals are in place for decent breaking systems and a decent 2 x 4/5 drive for the first time. There is no concept of groupset / gruppo. Just individuals pushing what they know. And sadly, there is not much off the shelf replacement parts since about 1985 to keep these bicycles alive. Like I say, it's tragic, and on all borrowed time now.

I'll post up bit's I dig up on the French forums. You have have a proper period RH in your stable, and I think, on the forum we are on, and what you doing with hands on, we can actually cut through some myths and get to to essential of what it is all about.

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

@Imlach Do I need to deploy the chicken

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

This will cover TA and Stronglight, mine is a VAR, bottom link. I can't remember where I bought mine though.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27428606...AB3F76oVBjg1woNTLQqUuD4mI=|tkp:Bk9SR-Lfh8j_YQ

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m13b0s72p2681/J-A-STEIN-Stronglight-49D-Crank-Extractor
https://www.hubjub.co.uk/var-crank-extractor-tool-pe-39300-4927-p.asp

 

[Mod-Master]

@Imlach Do I need to deploy the chicken

You don’t need a reason…

 

[Jonny69]

This will cover TA and Stronglight, mine is a VAR, bottom link. I can't remember where I bought mine though.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27428606...AB3F76oVBjg1woNTLQqUuD4mI=|tkp:Bk9SR-Lfh8j_YQ

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m13b0s72p2681/J-A-STEIN-Stronglight-49D-Crank-Extractor
https://www.hubjub.co.uk/var-crank-extractor-tool-pe-39300-4927-p.asp

Thanks for those. Hmm, there’s not much difference between the 23mm and 23.3/23.4mm sizes then. I’ll have to see if I can find a thread pitch set to check a bit more closely so I don’t end up with the wrong one. I’m just checking with a pal in case his crank extractor is double-sided like the VAR one you linked to.