Kona Hot 1997

[Pipmeister]

Re: Kona Hot 1997 - 7th heaven

I know there is already lots of info on tubeset etc but when did they start using the 853? and is it full 853?

A great question - it was the first one I was going to ask the forum when I had the frame in my hands I'd love to know from the greater good who still read this site!

I'm no tubing expert but I was going to check diameters, etc. I've searched and I can't find anything concrete that says for sure or not whether they were 100% 853. I'll stick my neck out and say that if Kona decided to have a 100% Max Explosif for 1997 at a presumably crazy cost or deal, then I reckon they did the same here.

That said, there has to be a caveat that because it's Altitude built, it could be anything

A bit of an update on what I have read regarding the 853 tubing used on the Hot.

From what I can see on your Altitude built frame, it appears to have a Reynolds decal stating 853 Main Tubes - the same as ernie's Altitude Rasta Flames Hot for example. Under US law this has to be correct, and if it were 853 Main Tubes and Stays, it would have a decal like this.



This piece is from Anthony. It goes some way to explaining the problems that Altitude may have encountered with using all 853 tubing, and how it is almost impossible to align the frame after welding. There is also reference to the Cali Stoner rumor.

Quote:

"There was another mtbr thread about the pros and cons of Taiwan vs US-built, to which Ted Wojcik contributed interestingly. If anyone thinks that if a frame isn’t straight then the builder was stoned (or careless for some other reason), I doubt that would apply to Altitude. Every builder aligns the tubes very carefully, but the temperatures involved in TIG welding inevitably cause distortion. High-cost US builders may do more checking between the different stages of the process, but even so a degree of cold setting is needed to correct variations. Reynolds 853 was brand new on the market in 1996 and nobody had any experience of it. Wojcik makes the point that the very ‘air hardening’ properties that make 853 attractive also make cold setting almost impossible. So maybe it turned out that the only way to make a straight frame with 853 and similar materials is to anticipate the distortions when you're setting up the alignment, rather than depend on correcting them afterwards. And you only learn that with experience. But hey, calling them a bunch of stoners is quicker, right?"

Pip.

 

[H1v9a8c8]

Re:

Al I tried messaging you twice about this frame before I sold it on eBay. Originally owned by a guy in Rhode Island who owned a shop and was a Kona dealer. He didn't like the 97 colors so he ordered it in the 96 colors with 97 design. Try to pm me I will find you his email in case you want to contact him. Glad it ended up with you.

 

[al-onestare]

Re: Kona Hot 1997 - 7th heaven

Pip - as ever I doff my cap to you. I really should re-read the stuff you and me dig out! The answers were there all along.

Al I tried messaging you twice about this frame before I sold it on eBay. Originally owned by a guy in Rhode Island who owned a shop and was a Kona dealer. He didn't like the 97 colors so he ordered it in the 96 colors with 97 design. Try to pm me I will find you his email in case you want to contact him. Glad it ended up with you.

Hey there! So, the great little story here is as follows.

Social media for all it's faults, is an amazing goldmine of information, even more vast than this portal (don't get me started on the missed opportunities of this platform). Recently a new group was formed for retro Kona owner or fans. It's pretty small. A couple of weeks back a member posted the back half of what looked like a '97 stars and bars Hot. Super rare, the only other I've seen is Skynet's. I messaged the owner to find out more and he sent me some truly stunning pictures of it, including the serial number. It is a genuine stars and bars, Altitude built Hot that we think was imported and used in Germany as a show-bike. It was tucked away in the dealership and unearthed almost 20 years later. It's condition is spectacular and needless to say, he wouldn't sell. Sensible man!

We exchanged information about what was going on with Kona back then and the last email (so I thought) he sent to me said that, whilst he wouldn't sell his, did I know there was an unusual one for sale hidden away (to me at least) on a local German selling site? I couldn't find it via google so he sent me the link and I was taken aback. I was looking at what you've seen so far.

The story doesn't end there.

It turns out the current owner in Germany bought the frame from H1v9a8c8. H1v9a8c8 is the guy I bought the team Explosif from. And in an amazing twist, the owner was the same guy I sold my '97 Kilauea to. This was straight out Kona-drug trafficking!

So the transaction was easy (less so on the wallet) and we chatted away about all things Kona. It was built up so he kindly disassembled it for me. I ended up buying the seat-post and cranks. The seat-post will be a spare but the cranks - silver RaceFace, just like the ones on the team Explosif - will be used.

So, H1v9a8c8 was on my list to contact this week to find out more but thanks dude, you beat me to it! I'll drop you a PM now. All's well that ends well.

Next up - cleaned up frame shots

 

[al-onestare]

Re: Kona Hot 1997 - 7th heaven

So, a very smooth transaction and a brilliant bit of packing from the seller meant she was in my hands on Friday evening. I can't tell you how cool it was to hold a Hot <tumbleweed>

In all seriousness when this bug bit me hard, I had no idea I'd ever see let alone hold or own a Hot. To me, these were the absolute pinnacle of steel Kona frames. With my rose tinted glasses on these were made to order, truly customised bikes. You paid a big sum of money and could have whatever you want.

Taking the glasses off, whilst you could chose whatever paint scheme you wanted, and sometimes the cable routing (and in one early case the brakes boss mount location), the rest was pretty much locked in stone depending on that years tubing. Now, I'm sure there are examples out there that defy this, but in this era of 1997, this is how it was.

There's a point to this but before that, here she is after a first quick de-grease.

(You can't see it, but the goat on the mech drop-out is there, along with the one you can just about see on the top of the drop-out - exactly the same drop-outs as the Caldera)

(It's defo #34, so HO9611034. The frame is dent free apart from one minor ding just where you can see the chip marks on the top right. This won't be an issue but just like the Team Explosif, she's been well loved and well ridden which I love; these bikes were made to put big smiles on our faces).

The light was poor all weekend so these shots don't do her justice. mkone asked if the blue was the same as the Caldera. It isn't, it's lighter and a more sparkling metallic. If you look at the red and then the blue, you'll recognise that this really is a rasta-flame stars n bars; the blue and red are the same shades as my A'ha (the blue is a better quality as well which makes sense). The white outline is more very light magnolia, so I'm not sure if that's just age or whether it was the original colour. Either way, it's brilliant and what the pictures don't show well is the red fade. It starts as a deep burgandy that turns to a deep red to a much lighter red, almost slightly pink on the tips of the flames. It's also metallic so the tips really sparkle. It's a great touch and no, I definitely didn't spend 10 minutes under a spot-lamp rolling the frame in my hands, slightly mesmerised

Pip pointed out the 853 decal and you can clearly see that this states main tubes (only). Now we know this frame was made to order, decals and all, I'm more confident that this isn't 100% 853. I'm not a steel expert but going on looks, the rear triangle looks spookily like the Caldera. My guess it's 4130 - in whatever guise Altitude used. In my highly technical weight test (balancing on my fingers), the frame is lighter than the Caldera but slightly heavier than the Explosif. It's more balanced than the Caldera as well.

Ok, I'll take a pause. What do you think? As ever, I love hearing and reading your views. The point that I alluded to earlier concerns build quality. As Pip pointed out from Anthony (the don), there are all sorts of theories and rumours about how skilled the workforce were and how good the frames were. If I focus for a second on weld aesthetics, in my view, the Explosifs, the Manomano and even the A'ha, all have neater, cleaner welds than the Caldera and the Hot. This harks back to much bigger conversations about how the quality in the east was as good if not better than the west,. This has been covered on this site a lot, but it's really cool to actually see the evidence in front of me.

 

[Pipmeister]

Re:

Well done mate, she is indeed lovely.

As for her rear end (snigger) .... if you check out this link again on page one of "Okay, tell me about the Kona Hot" and scroll to Anthony's post Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:31 am, you'll see that he seems certain the Stays will be Reynolds 725.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32150

I can think of an example where he is referring to another frame that has that combination of tubing, but it is, "As good as it gets".

Pip.

 

[Alla]

Re:

Hi Alasdair,
glad to see this beauty arrived safely at your place!
I am already hooked on your "7th heaven" thread and will follow any updates!
Have fun!
Alexander

 

[fattiman]

Re: Kona Hot 1997 - 7th heaven

Interesting, based on your observations regarding the welds and the weight on the HOT it would seem that the only factor in the HOT's favor is the fact that you could customise it to some degree.
In short its heavier and with lesser quality welds than the Explosif frame costing half the price.

 

[al-onestare]

Re: Kona Hot 1997 - 7th heaven

Interesting, based on your observations regarding the welds and the weight on the HOT it would seem that the only factor in the HOT's favor is the fact that you could customise it to some degree.
In short its heavier and with lesser quality welds than the Explosif frame costing half the price.

Yep, pretty much this. Again, I should stress this is my view of this exact time - not the TET era - and when I say heavier, it's not a tank by any means!

Hi Alasdair,
glad to see this beauty arrived safely at your place!
I am already hooked on your "7th heaven" thread and will follow any updates!
Have fun!
Alexander

 

[Klein-aficionado]

Re:

This is going to be something special.

Signing up to follow this project all the way...

K.

 

[magas]

Re: Kona Hot 1997 - 7th heaven

did I mention that I'm jealous :mrgreen: