Just built a 29'er. Will I ever ride on 26" wheels again?

[coomber]

probably a minority know what pumping is or that they should use counterpressure and hip motion to steer. If you've mastered these skills and can bunny hop, then congratulations, you're in the top 10% of riders. So a bike that makes these skills harder to use but less needed is highly marketable.

Most learn that after a few months of riding.

So... 29ers are faster then. Which is great if you want to ride quick.

 

[Mike Muz]

probably a minority know what pumping is or that they should use counterpressure and hip motion to steer. If you've mastered these skills and can bunny hop, then congratulations, you're in the top 10% of riders. So a bike that makes these skills harder to use but less needed is highly marketable.

Most learn that after a few months of riding.

So that's why I'm so sh-t !

Mike

 

[PurpleFrog]

probably a minority know what pumping is or that they should use counterpressure and hip motion to steer. If you've mastered these skills and can bunny hop, then congratulations, you're in the top 10% of riders. So a bike that makes these skills harder to use but less needed is highly marketable.

Most learn that after a few months of riding.

I can't help suspecting that your sample is heavily biased - for a start the more someone rides, the more likely you are to meet them on the trail. When you're thinking about bikes sold, which is what the industry naturally does, garage queens and semi-queens (princesses?) are a big part of the numbers.

And still more mtbs never leave fireroads or gravel where you'll never see them. I was talking to a gravel racer recently and he thought that all there was to riding offroad was being able to pedal while not falling off while making a gentle turn. I assumed the guy had no mtb background, but he said that he'd ridden them for years. He was obviously very fit and spent big money on bikes, spent lots of time on bikes and competed in offroad events, and still he had no idea that basic techniques like using the body to control c-o-g existed - let alone pumping. So people like this do exist!

..It's very noticeable that when you look at discussion about 29ers that pumping doesn't get mentioned, even though its something that gets harder with wheel size - a 24 is noticeably easier to pump than a 26 afterall. Otoh, a hardtail 29er may be easier to pump than a fs 26. I think this is one of the first things any intelligent person would want to discuss, but it never seems to get mentioned. Bizarre.

 

[coomber]

Fair point I suppose, loads of bikes get bought and never used. eBay has hundreds "bought new and used for 100miles in the last five year"

29er is definately harder to pump, noticed that yesterday. Bunnyhopping wasnt too bad though, but im awful at that on a 26er and a 29er.

 

[PurpleFrog]

Fair point I suppose, loads of bikes get bought and never used. eBay has hundreds "bought new and used for 100miles in the last five year"

29er is definately harder to pump, noticed that yesterday. Bunnyhopping wasnt too bad though, but im awful at that on a 26er and a 29er.

I have a strong suspicion that 20% of the $1500-$2000 (I'm in the UK, but I tend to think in $ prices for various reasons) bikes do 50-80% of the singletrack miles. One of the things I get paid to do is research businesses and markets, and I've been struck, as I've been doing my rebuild research for my Zaskar, how the user reviews I read assume that riding an mtb follows the sit "on the seat and pedal model". Very few saddle reviews talk about how well the saddle gets out of the way for standing pedaling, how easy it is to slide over the back, whether the saddle works well for applying some thigh pressure. And when you see discussions of alt bars like the Midge no one ever asks whether the new position changes your ability to shift your weight on the seat or how midges, woodchippers or misfit fme's (which I really quite fancy) affect your ability to pump or exert counterpressure.

..It's very hard to reconcile this sort of discussion with the idea that most of these people are riding mtbs "properly". So I think, yes, most bikes bought are either garage queens or pathway princesses. These bikes *occasionally* hit mild singletrack and then they're ridden non-mtb style - no pumping or clever bugger turning. You and the other "hardcore" won't see them much, but they're a big market and 29ers play to their strengths.

..Which is not to say that 29ers aren't great for awesome riders too! I just enjoy trying to make sense of the physics and the marketing going on and how they interact.

 

[superstu]

..It's very hard to reconcile this sort of discussion

..Which is not to say that 29ers aren't great for awesome riders too! I just enjoy trying to make sense of the physics and the marketing going on and how they interact.

You obviously like analysing things but do feel you're overthinking things!

I tried a 29r this week and was blown away at how different they ride. Jumping back to my modern 26' bike half an hour later felt like jumping back on a Retrobike!

 

[ultrazenith]

I think most people believe that the wheels store a significant amount of energy as flywheels, but this isn't true. If your and your bike weigh 100kg and the wheels and tyres are 2kg of this, then at most they'll store about 4% of total energy. And 29er wheels only store perhaps 25% more energy that 26s - and 25% of 4% will have no noticeable impact on bike performance.

I'm a physicist and even I have trouble sorting out what is hype and what is real in the 26 vs 27 vs 29 debate. I find it difficult to believe that 29er wheels are harder to get moving to the same speed as 26er ones - or that they store more rotational energy (angular momentum; for sure they store more kinetic energy due to their forward motion with the bike).

The circumference of a wheel is pi x diameter. Unless there is some major design difference between the 26 and 29er wheel and tire, the 29er versions would be a factor of 29/26=1.12 heavier (12%). When rotating at the same frequency of revolutions per second, the 29er wheel would have angular momentum (stored rotational energy) that is 12% greater than an equivalent 26er wheel rotating at the same frequency. However, one must also consider that for the same linear velocity of the bicycle, the 29er wheel, due to its 12% larger circumference, will rotate at a proportionately lower frequency than a 26er wheel. Both wheels should be equally easy to accelerate to the same bicycle velocity.

Edit: I suspect I have forgotten something important in the above... too much overthinking is not good for you.

As part of my work I also enjoy thinking way outside the box. Let me throw this one to the people with more knowledge and experience of bike and riding 29ers: What is it that makes the 29.0 inch wheel the perfect size for obtaining the benefits of larger wheels, and bottom bracket height)? Surely if 29ers give much better speed, why not go to 30" wheels to get even more of the same benefits? I don't doubt that people's experiences with 29ers are very real, but it strikes me that the marketing people have simply plucked the number 29 out of thin air.

And if even short riders can handle riding 29ers, wouldn't/shouldn't super tall riders like me be able to handle 30-31" wheeled MTBs? How cool would that be ...

All these things put aside, I do really want to own a 29er at some point in the near future, but I think I'll skip the 27" ones, unless I find a really nice XC FS 27" I like.

I've read a few guys here have ridden or own steel 29ers. I'd love to know how they compare to a good old skool steel MTB, do they they still have a soul, etc.?

 

[ultrazenith]

..It's very noticeable that when you look at discussion about 29ers that pumping doesn't get mentioned, even though its something that gets harder with wheel size - a 24 is noticeably easier to pump than a 26 afterall. Otoh, a hardtail 29er may be easier to pump than a fs 26. I think this is one of the first things any intelligent person would want to discuss, but it never seems to get mentioned. Bizarre.

Serious question: what is pumping? Having learnt all my trail skills as a teenager, I probably do all the standard techniques instinctively, but that being way before the internet and youtube, I have no idea what their official names are.

Example: manualling = lifting the front wheel up a bit.

 

[The History Man]

Yes, the steel bikes have a soul. At last a completely subjective not overthought over analysed question for which the answer is already suggested.

 

[firedfromthecircus]

I'm a physicist...........

......... I'd love to know how they compare to a good old skool steel MTB, do they they still have a soul, etc.?

Does not compute.